Posts by Halcon

20

So Let's Say Bigger Change Happens

by peacefulpete in

if a change in the blood policy happens, who will be more upset, jws or former jws?

i suspect the latter.

when the beard thing went down, jw's seem to immediately embrace it, whereas many former jw's have been brooding about it.. did it take away a pet gripe we had?.

Halcon

Pete-When the beard thing went down, JW's seem to immediately embrace it, whereas many former JW's have been brooding about it. Did it take away a pet gripe we had? Do we feel jealous of JWs living now? Does this change make you question if you made a mistake in leaving the church?

As someone who is technically still in, I see JW as being much closer to other religions now. I strongly feel that many members around me do also, especially after the one-two punch of no time keeping and beards.

I don't envy their present confusion, nor losing their sense of being "special" amongst other religions.

On a more personal level, my interests and lifestyle is far removed from the general mainstream anyways. There's nothing about the 'standard' JW lifestyle or any religion that makes me jealous now or presumably ever.

23

How they could change blood doctrine

by Person in

many people say gb will soon dump blood doctrine to appear less fanatical.

others saying it is impossible for them to do that because of legal ramifications.

i think there is a way that could potentially be solution to those problems.

Halcon

Tonus -Their only recourse is to make it a conscience matter. They may not like that, because it will look like they are trying to weasel out of dealing with the issue directly.

Indeed. Combine this with focusing on the lifesaving aspects of blood transfusions and it's a possibility.

The new rule of being able to speak friendly with expelled people at the KH in my opinion was an even bigger deal, mentally, than the beards and pants thing as there was "technically" scriptures supporting the idea of completely shunning an expelled person, whereas there was nothing on the former.

These little mental blocks could very well be setting up the much bigger ones.

86

Prediction: no more changes for a long while

by slimboyfat in

i’ve noticed a pattern where things don’t go the way i expect them to go and/or whenever i realise there is a trend and, i mentally adjust for the idea that the trend will continue, the trend stops in its tracks.

so on that basis, and given many people, including myself, and active jws, have been asking ‘what changes will the governing body make next?’ perhaps the (disappointing) answer is: ‘nothing much for a while to come’.

maybe they’ve made the changes they want for now, and will wait a while and see how it’s received.

Halcon

I attended the meeting this past weekend. I would say the KH was about 2/5th full. People still commenting via zoom. The whole no suits and beards thing incidentally made for a much less formal experience. Many scraggly looking guys : )

There seems to be a rather clear distinction in the energy between the older folks and the more nonchalant younger ones. But everyone had this peculiar look on their face of mild uncertainty.

It certainly feels very, very far removed from the old days (meaning the 90s for me). JW is definitely going through a great period of transition right now.

56

Can God Change his Mind?

by peacefulpete in

is 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.

does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.

when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?

Halcon

God disappears for a time, and men's instincts derive an endless list of gods and devils, all of them wrong. Or perhaps not entirely wrong, as Pharaoh's sorcerers were able to call on their deities to duplicate some of the miracles that Moses performed.

Certainly not wrong, if we believe that an entire realm of spiritual beings exist.

And if we believe that God placed that instinct in man, we would believe that it was reliable for the simple fact that the belief still stands. And this is before one considers how God may have played a personal role in their life.

56

Can God Change his Mind?

by peacefulpete in

is 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.

does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.

when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?

Halcon

All these examples demonstrate a tendency for the human mind to draw conclusions on inference, with incomplete evidence, reinforced through culture. None of these "conclusions" are "instinctive", they are demonstrations of all-to-common flawed decision making.

The conclusion occurred at the very beginning, before time and culture could reinforce it.

If the first human being who thought of it, without persuasion or influence of culture or concept, then what was it if not instinctive?

If the idea was not original for that first man, as you indicated, then it must have come from outside of man. A mind beyond man's?

56

Can God Change his Mind?

by peacefulpete in

is 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.

does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.

when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?

Halcon

Tonus- I am not talking about a group of nomads hashing out the cause of lightning over a few evenings and coming up with a long explanation. Even today, we have a tendency to jump to conclusions on insufficient evidence in order to deal with things we may not understand.

This also points, then, to the conclusion having been instinctive. A conclusion that originates at the very beginning of mankind and manages to stand the test of time til today despite all the advances in comprehension.

Again, if there was a god who interacted with these people and guided them at some point, the development of religion would have begun along a single and clear track. With the certainty of god as a starting point, the answers would not have been made up or random.

This is a separate point, alluding specifically to the God of the Bible. The Bible, nevertheless, clearly states that God eventually became a mystery. In fact, it states that it wasn't until the time of Moses that he revealed his name again. It's no surprise that by then there were countless gods being worshipped just in Egypt alone.

56

Can God Change his Mind?

by peacefulpete in

is 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.

does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.

when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?

Halcon

Anony-What we see today is a distillation of many similar ideas that eventually harken back to being afraid of the dark.

There were plenty of familiar and tangible things to be afraid of in the dark, presumably predators to start off. Insects, rodents, smaller animals that could still slash and bite, other humans , etc...

None of these things remotely resembled God or gods. Yet, these people began to worship something higher than themselves.

56

Can God Change his Mind?

by peacefulpete in

is 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.

does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.

when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?

Halcon

Tonus -I don't know. Curiosity? A desire for some degree of certainty? These are traits we still carry with us today, and they likely would have been much more useful in our distant past.

The lengthy and rather scientific process you theorized these primitives may have carried out to arrive at a conclusion of God seems much too laborious to just appease curiosity. Imagine a tribe of people, mostly concerned with finding food and staying alive, sitting down and determining 'we MUST invent an explanation for X". It goes against the notion that these people, the males in particular, were all about practicality and efficiency.

Based on what we understand of these primitives, it seems it would have been more logical to attribute anything mysterious to themselves, and thereby gain an upper hand amongst themselves. To have attributed these powers to someone outside of themselves undermines the logical process you described and further, undermined man all the way to now.

The desire for certainty in these people was supposedly seen and carried out in their actions. In their supposed daily fight for survival. We are led to believe today that these primitives MADE their future possible by virtue of their physical strength and force of will.

But if they indeed had faith in their god or gods that they could aid them in their survival, or even utterly dictate their fortune or misfortune, then it wasn't simply an invention to appease curiosity or create certainty.

56

Can God Change his Mind?

by peacefulpete in

is 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.

does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.

when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?

Halcon

This is true, the unknown inspires imagination. Thoughts are a powerful thing.

56

Can God Change his Mind?

by peacefulpete in

is 31:yet he also is wise and will bring disaster and does not retract his words.. 1 sam 15: furthermore, the eternal one of israel does not lie or change his mind, for he is not man who changes his mind.. numbers 23: god is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes his mind.

does he speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?.

when the god you worship pronounces judgement, is he, really just issuing a warning or has the matter been determined through all the godly powers of insight, foresight and perfect judgement?

Halcon

You dog and your wife infer based on what they cannot see (the wind and what made the sound of a creaking floor).

Fire and water were both visible and could be interacted with. Yet seeing and touching fire and water were not enough.

Further, these primitives probably made use of these elements. In other words, they were thoroughly familiar with them (unlike not knowing why a sound was made). Yet they still made gods out of them.