Posts by Halcon

34

The snake of Genesis 3:1

by Halcon in

we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

Halcon

Kaleb, a couple of questions if you please.

The mythology of "being like God" in Genesis is about something Adam and Eve already were. The narrative is about the Jews losing the Promised Land due to their breaking the Mosaic Law covenant. Paradise represents the land of Israel, Adam and Eve are the forebears of Abraham and Sarah (not necessarily all humans), they are caretakers of Paradise or the Promised Land, assigned as such by God.

What I am understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the Law directly in relation to the promised land took precedent over everything...even (and perhaps wasn't even close) defining and understanding what God is.

Which comes across to me as a reversal of sorts (I could be misinterpreting the general convention here too), which is to first establish clearly who or what has authority then present its laws.

It would seem that understanding the who or what would naturally motivate obedience to the laws. It seems simply human nature to expect this (vs obeying a law from someone or something that is clearly hidden and utterly unrelatable to the degree you are describing it in Judaism).

They were already created in the "image of God" as Genesis 1 explains, being "like God" in every way. But unlike in Genesis chapter 1 where God rests on the Sabbath, thus obeying the Mosaic Law, the Jews did not do this, thus not reflecting God's image in themselves.

Here, I perceive, occurred a separation of sorts between the state of being like God and what Adam became afterwards. Am I understanding that Adam was already the fullest state of being God (in every way as understood in Judaism)?

And if he was, how does Judaism differentiate God from Adam?

34

The snake of Genesis 3:1

by Halcon in

we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

Halcon

Vidiot -Every hero needs a nemesis.

An inevitability, or perhaps even a full blown necessity, arising out of free will?

34

The snake of Genesis 3:1

by Halcon in

we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

Halcon

Plato was born in 428 BCE. He did not read, study or teach the Hebrew text. In fact, there is no textual evidence which shows any early Greek philosopher (from Thales to Epicurus) quoting or commenting on The Old Testament. Both Phythagoras and Plato were reported by some to have traveled to Israel and the greater Middle East but there is no reliable textual evidence which proves this.

I believe I'd read this as well, and found it very interesting in relation to our comments.

How unlikely was it that an Athenian (albeit Plato) coul essentially come to the same spiritual philosophical conclusions in regards to the distinction between the physical body and spiritual one as the ones in the Torah as summarized/symbolized by the snake of Genesis?

Plato asserts that the truest reality was in the Forms, and therefore the human being should strive to attain to this enlightenment. The material world was inferior to the spiritual in his philosophy. Plotinus, a self described pure platonist, centuries later goes on to explicitly describe that man's responsibility is to climb the chain of existence until man sheds his inferior material body and his essence incorporates into the same substance as the One or God.

You wouldn't be accused of being farfetched to think that these platonists plagiarized the words of the snake of Genesis. Yet, there's nothing to indicate they had any knowledge of Genesis.

Is this purely coincidental?

Kaleb, in your studies when does this concept of man being compelled to "rise" to be God and godlike first appear? I'm assuming it was neither the Torah or its contemporary authors.

34

The snake of Genesis 3:1

by Halcon in

we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

Halcon

It was always my impression that Balaam had little inclination to follow the Mosaic Law, unlike the person of Eve, and was rather painted as a man mostly motivated by personal gain. I'm curious as to how his character was used as a stand-in for the Jew who was naturally motivated to follow the Law.

In both Genesis and Numbers the "speaking animal" is simply a stand-in for the Jewish conscience telling the Jew not to break any of the Ten Commandments.

Interestingly, the platonists and gnostics and variants thereafter very much insisted that "all is mental" and that the physical and sensible was but an illusion. Your conclusion that the snake of Genesis was purely a byproduct of the mind is almost identical to the conclusion of these mystical ones.

Going a little further, what the snake claims to offer man in the garden of Eden is seemingly entirely spiritual, since God is spirit. The gnostics would say that "God is mind". Therefore, indeed any actual provable physical and historical reference became unnecessary as it was besides the point.

22

My latest letter to the WT organization

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

may 14, 2024. hello brothers at the writing committee.

many brothers and sisters are wondering when will the end come?

we were supposed to live in the last days of the last days as brother lett told a couple of years ago.

Halcon

Kosonen-9 therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah. 10 This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘I am against the shepherds, and I will demand an accounting of them for my sheep, and I will dismiss them from feeding my sheep, and the shepherds will no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouth, and they will no longer be food for them.

Kosonen, do you believe God is using you to accomplish this?

34

The snake of Genesis 3:1

by Halcon in

we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

Halcon

It is, however, interesting that the word aroom seemingly corroborates the description of the snake in Genesis with the way the snake is described by completely different and opposing spiritual and mystical writings.

34

The snake of Genesis 3:1

by Halcon in

we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

Halcon

Diogenesister-it almost sounds like the Bible wasn't quite so black and white when this was written. (Ie not the later idea of absolute evil and good)

Or, the scriptures were being accurate in describing the snake's comprehension of the "mechanics" or functions of the spiritual world in relation to the physical one.

The 'navigation' part of the definition of aroom is especially interesting. Going back to the gnostic beliefs, the snake is described as being a benevolent figure who has the capacity to show a human being the path back to their divinity, aka become one with God again. This implies that the being, identified as satan to Christians (hence I assume the translation of the word into "crafty" or cunning), knew how to maneuver between spirit and flesh with ease.

In the garden of Eden, the snake claimed that Eve would be like God, which again is a concept associated today with gnosticism (this of course being a version of much older concepts). He seemed to be playing the benevolent role of the gnostics here, implying he had knowledge that could transform her.

The snake, as Genesis describes, did in fact posses wisdom and insight into the method of transforming from spirit into flesh and vice versa that made it stand apart from other spiritual beings that presumably didn't know how to. Where it lied blatantly was in claiming that a human could be like God himself.

34

The snake of Genesis 3:1

by Halcon in

we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

Halcon

Thank you goowy, vidqun and kaleb. This is all very helpful and interesting.

It means "shrewd" in the sense of "prudence" in clever knowledge and sight, usually in navigation.

This definition of aroom in particular seems to be well aligned with the general gnostic interpretation of the snake, which I was reading into the other day.

Coincidentally, Taze Russell seems to have been greatly influenced by the Freemason line of thought, of which it burrowed much from the gnostic one.

34

The snake of Genesis 3:1

by Halcon in

we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

Halcon

We've got some really knowledgeable members on here so I have a question for them and everybody.

What was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of Genesis 3:1?

Currently one can read words in English translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.

I'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

44

Branch dedication London

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

i’ve been invited to the dedication at chelmsford.. it’s crazy here, several thousand ex bethelites here for lots of events.

all hotels booked.

big marquee.

Halcon

What is Chelmsford replacing?