Posts by Halcon

40

Who Are the "Other Sheep" and Jesus "Brothers" ?

by Sea Breeze in

watchtower plays lots of games with definitions.

once they change a definition then they have a false assumption to build their deception on.

then they repeat the new definition and use its new meaning thousands of times to reinforce it.

Halcon

Then they try to confuse the issue by claiming that modern Christians don't need to be part of the New Covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" (See Mt. 26: 27-28)

And this is what it is all about. It is an excuse to reject the NC every Lord's Supper so that JW's CANNOT be saved by virture of Christ's blood.... which is the offer on the table for church-age believers.

If I'm following you correctly, the point of the WT is to prevent witnesses from eating and drinking at the Lord's supper.

Altho this is certainly accomplished in a literal way, sincere jws are still choosing the side of Christ. Meaning, those that truly have faith in the general 'life saving' message.

It doesn't seem plausible that God would punish a person who has chosen correctly in their heart on account of following incorrect directions. That seems to be placing more importance on the ritual than the principal itself.

40

Who Are the "Other Sheep" and Jesus "Brothers" ?

by Sea Breeze in

watchtower plays lots of games with definitions.

once they change a definition then they have a false assumption to build their deception on.

then they repeat the new definition and use its new meaning thousands of times to reinforce it.

Halcon

Breeze- So, when Jesus presented Himself as a shepherd to Israel, He was claiming to be the fulfillment of Messianic prophecy. This means that the sheep are Israelites. So, when Jesus said that he had "other sheep" not of this fold, he is saying that he is going to one-day shepherd non-Israelites as well.

This is the conclusion I eventually also arrived at. And as you said, it just seemed common sense.

The anointed vs great crowd (JWs other sheep) JW teaching seems to be a result from the assertion that there will be a future paradise on Earth. Therefore, someone has to inhabit it. (vs just heaven and hell, two destinations instead of 3)

What I've also come to conclude is that this parsing between interpretations of biblical verses seems a bit overdone. In other words, if you're on the side of Jesus then anything that happens to you afterwards will be good. If not, it will be unpleasant to say the least.

JW states that there is only ONE faith that will take you to the 'promised land'... whatever that is (it will be undoubtedly good). Yet, when I see the sincerity of people in their faith in Christ, it seems that doctrinal details become less important.

Is it less about doctrine technicalities, and more so about just sincerely taking a side?

21

A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

by Terry in

jw
friends

yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

Halcon

Pete -Why is it when discussing a Jewish creation story, taking a sober look at the culture and politics of the Jewish people at the time of writing is neglected in favor of time paradox speculation and invisible entities?

The concept of gods was not an invention by the Jewish people. The very claim that the book of Genesis was written closer to 1BC than not should clarify that the concept of an all powerful god was not a Jewish innovation.

When tasked with solving a jewelry store robbery, the district attorney doesn't hypothesize goblins and time machines. Rather, they pragmatically check surveillance cameras, collect physical evidence and do profiling using the details of the case.

This is logical of course.

It is also logical that the entire universe had to start from something. What was that 'something' before the big bang as Terry asked at the beginning? And how about the thing before that? Where is the evidence for these things?

If there is none, then you could claim we arrived from nothing. But this isn't very logical at all.

21

A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

by Terry in

jw
friends

yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

Halcon

My current hypothesis is this: IF God exists, we then may well be all in His imagination.

I believe that there is a very good chance that this is correct. It lines up well with the more abstract ideas in the Bible. And it lines up almost completely with the 'other side's' interpretation of reality (as symbolized by the snake), where it's taught that all things are one, and that this one thing is purely mental.

I go one step further: His mental preoccupation with "the Universe and mankind" is what keeps Him 'sane.'

Here I will disagree again. It's difficult to imply that otherwise God would be IN-sane were it not for his thoughts of mankind. I don't believe God was mad or in a state of mental desperation prior to having any thoughts.

And one more item on the list! All the damage done throughout the history of our world "Does Not Count" against God because He is merely an author thinking up a plot in which heroes die and sometimes Bad Guys flourish.

It's clear that if man wanted, the world would be a much better place. Hate, greed, selfishness, etc all make it incredibly challenging for a huge part of the world to live in peace. It's easier to blame God for lightening or a shark striking an innocent person. Less so when dealing with the emotions of hate or greed.

9

I'll just leave this 'ere

by stan livedeath in

woman who died and 'went to heaven' says she now knows when armageddon will happen (msn.com).

Halcon

So when is it coming?

32

Yesterday's Public Talk: '' Reject Worldly Fantasies, Pursue Kingdom Realities''

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

my brother ( an elder ) calls me every time he's assigned a public talk.

he believes listening to zoom meetings is a great start, to eventually attending in-person meetings.

the talk is titled : '' reject worldly fantasies, pursue kingdom realities.

Halcon

All religions gaslight there believers that they are the only true religion and they should believe the fantasies that they promotes as true. They don't want them to do independent research into the bible and find out that the bible is the uninspired word of man.

I don't think this is true. Most Christian religions emphasize simply accepting Christ to be saved. The denomination seems to be of less importance.

18

"You Can't Handle The Truth!"

by FragrantAddendum in

...or can you?.

(we'll see...).

https://youtu.be/ckk850qhgws.

Halcon

It would be interesting to know if Russell actually knew what he was doing when he embraced all those ancient symbols. Or, if he was simply overexcited in his discovery of them.

Eventually the WT correctly rid itself of all of that symbology. I say correctly in the sense that any religion claiming to be Christian can't also embrace such anti Christian concepts.

At first it doesn't seem likely that Russell knew what he was doing, yet one cannot deny the fact that he succeeded in establishing a whole new religion.

32

Yesterday's Public Talk: '' Reject Worldly Fantasies, Pursue Kingdom Realities''

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

my brother ( an elder ) calls me every time he's assigned a public talk.

he believes listening to zoom meetings is a great start, to eventually attending in-person meetings.

the talk is titled : '' reject worldly fantasies, pursue kingdom realities.

Halcon

The talk is about the dangers of ''Worldly Fantasies'' such as reading books and magazines, watching television, watching and attending sporting events. The only pursuits should be Kingdom Realities... attending meetings, reading the Bible and Preaching the Good News.

This sounds like something out of the 80s. I'm not at all surprised people were falling asleep to this. I would say 99% of JWs know there's nothing wrong with sports or books. I can understand pointing out to specifics like books on spiritism and tarot, or maybe sports dealing with animal cruelty. But the days of legitimately condemning football and boxing, reading, are firmly in the past.

21

A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

by Terry in

jw
friends

yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

Halcon

Pete,

Love as a motive, doesn't seem to be obvious in a universe defined, formed and maintained by catastrophe and consumption. The scriptures, you elude to describe the human tendency to anthropomorphize.

I would say you anthropomorphized that poor chipmunk in your example hehehe. I see what you are saying here tho.

Terry, however, was referring to the why God proceeded to create the first thing outside of himself, before anything happening afterwards. I said love was the motivation vs desperation, which would reflect a state of lacking and powerlessness, which is more human than a limitless, overabundant God.

If God exists in a state of fullness and abundance, then why the desire to create? If God has everything in himself already, naturally more love would spring forth. It wouldn't even require him to think it.

21

A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

by Terry in

jw
friends

yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

Halcon

I think our entire history of the Universe, the world, of mankind, of Nature, of civilizations, politics, technology, etc. etc. is the result of a Supreme Being almost (or entirely) going mad and desperately IMAGINING into "EXISTENCE" something to occupy His mind (lest He go entirely insane.)

Gm Terry,

I've come to a very similar conclusion (as many others have thru the ages), except this...that God created everything outside of himself as a NATURAL first step. Meaning, it wasn't out of desperation. More precisely, as we've come to read over and over in the scriptures, he wills all things into existence out of love.

This 'pre existence' state of being is mind-blowing in the same way that we cannot comprehend the method of creating life from non living matter.

And these mind-blowing examples are subtle demonstrations that there is indeed a much higher intelligence operating out there.