Posts by TD

Moreover, "Jesus"' argument repeatedly implies that he is above the law (as "lord of the sabbath," Mark 2:28//, or "greater than the temple," Matthew 12:6). John clearly states that to "the Jews" Jesus is "breaking the sabbath" (5:18).

Yes, the implication is certainly there and to me, it seems to be one that conservative Christians particularly favor. However in this “conflict” Jesus position (As you point out) is actually more reflective of mainstream Judaism than anything else and as a result, the “dispute” takes the form not of whether the Sabbath should be kept, (Jesus as above the Law) but of how it should be kept. (Jesus as arbiter of the Law)

This seemed to me to add rather than subtract for jgnat’s initial point. A manager that breaks a rule because he or she can is altogether different than a manger with a better grasp of the intricacies of when the rule does and doesn’t apply. The former is little more than a hypocrite who abuses their power.

49

Jesus as Manager and Founder of Christianity

by jgnat in

as a manager, i've used jesus as a model and his example has served me well.

i approach my job as a servant 1 , and the people under me are the ones i work for.

i follow the foot-washing principle2.

TD

Jesus broke the Sabbath on two occassions. His disciples grabbed some grain from the field, and he healed on the Sabbath. The Pharisees called him on it, and he replied that the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath. In other words, God can ride over these other rules any time he wants. Because he's God. What bible are you reading?

With respect, jgnat, The prohibition of work on the Sabbath was never recognized as being monolithic in application. Sabbath law may be rendered either dechuya (suspended) or hutra (abrogated) by the circumstances pertaining to the work. One of the classic examples from Rabbic literature is the collapse of an occupied building on the Sabbath. The backbreaking task of clearing the rubble in search of survivors is "work" by any definition of the word. Yet it is not "prohibited" work. Jesus did not arbitrarily break the Sabbath simply because he (allegedly) could. In both of the instances you cite, Jesus not only gave reasons that were perfectly viable within halacha, he cited precedent as well. Tom

17

Bush Goofs Again!

by Oroborus21 in

jw
friends

president bush says that he is going to texas to visit the state where hurrican rita will hit.

but the eyewall is probably going to actually make landfall in louisiana!

well i suppose he has to let all his supporters in texas know that he cares.

TD

I like your sense of humor, Ed. Not everyone appreciates it dry.

63

Can any JW answer OldSoul's 4 questions about JW teachings scripturally?

by kwintestal in

i am waiting for any jehovah's witness to offer support in scripture of these four articles of faith: .

(1) the faithful and discreet slave is a class of people, .

(2) that the holy spirit directs organizations in addition to individuals, .

TD

I think civil, criminal and spiritual authority have all three been merged together and the result (IMO) is a somewhat murky picture.

The Law originally governed an autonomous state and as such exercised authority in all three areas. In contrast, Christianity, which came into existence at the height of the Pax Romana coexists with the State by exercising neither civil nor criminal authority. For example, although Christianity recognizes that murder is wrong, the determination of the crime and punishment is left to whatever State the adherent happens to live in. (Paul's "Superior authorities")

Christianity concerns itself with spiritual matters and the authority of that appointment was made by divine intervention. Therefore I would question whether the legitimacy of organizations that claim to weild this authority can be justified on the ad hoc basis by which Christians recognize the authority of the State.

23

How Do JWs Misapply The Scriptures???

by minimus in

jw
friends

did you know that all these hurricanes and tsunamis are a "sign" that we're in "the time of the end"?

almost anything that happens is "proof" that we're "living in the last days".

when george bush sr. talked about a "new world order", in the 80's, that too was a "sign".

TD

They treat the Bible as a single contiguous book with themselves as the primary audience.

What I mean by this, is that a collection of works by a common author doesn't become ONE book with a central theme just because they have been bound together.

Of course, the JW's are hardly alone in this. Most fundies seem to believe that interpretive rules (e.g. "A day for a year") established for one book of the Bible should be applied unilaterally.

118

C.T. Russell: a confirmed Pittsburgh Free Mason

by kid-A in

jw
friends

there is overwhelming evidence that the spiritual founder of the wts, c.t.

russell, was a prominent free mason in the pittsburgh community.

he went so far as to declare: "i am a free mason" in several of his lectures.

TD

Hi Cygnus,

You seem to know what you're talking about. Wasn't the property bought by the Masons after Russell was buried there?

I don't think the Mason's own the Rosemont United Cemetary, but they certainly own the adjacent property on Masonic Way. I've been told (By a Bible Student) that the Bible Students currently own what's left of the Bethel family plot.

At any rate, the plot monument is described in the 1919 souvenir convention report. (I don't have a decent copy to scan, so I'm just going to type this)

"We visited the marble works and there watched the workmen slowly but surely chisel out the monument to be erected as a memorial to the Society. The Watch Tower Society burial lots in Rosemont United Cemetaries, five miles due north of Pittsburgh City, contain ample grave space for all the members of the Bethel family, and the Pilgrims and their wives--in all more than 275 adult graves. In the exact center of the Bethel lot will be erected diagonally the Pyramid Shape Monument as designed by Brother Bohnet, and accepted by Brother Russell as the most fitting emblem for an enduring monument on the Society's burial space."

118

C.T. Russell: a confirmed Pittsburgh Free Mason

by kid-A in

jw
friends

there is overwhelming evidence that the spiritual founder of the wts, c.t.

russell, was a prominent free mason in the pittsburgh community.

he went so far as to declare: "i am a free mason" in several of his lectures.

TD

The pyramid is the plot monument for what was the Bethel family plot. It was designed by J.A. Bohnet, one of the directors who had supported Rutherford.

Plot monuments are distinct from headstones in that they mark whole groups of graves. To that end, they're often very large statues or obelisks. Of course, the really, really wealthy built full blown mausoleums. Neither of these, (Mausoleums and plot monuments) are as common today as they used to be, but you can usually find both in an old cemetary.

103

Question for Defd

by gringojj in

jw
friends

.

defd we were talking earlier and i didnt want to hijack the other post.

we were talking about how i believe it is unfair for god to murder his children even though it is his fault that they dont follow his wishes not because they dont want to but because he did not make his wishes clear.. you said that his wishes are clear, but the devil distorts them.. you promised me you would provide me with some examples.

TD

So u wont here much more of me this morning. Having to deal with people like OLD SOUL and there crazy " THOUGHT PROVOKING" (right) questions are driving me insane today.

"Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity."