TD

Joined

• started 129 topics
• posted 7,265 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by TD

• 
  7

  Interesting WT Deluge Contradiction I just noticed.

  by Jofi_Wofo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reviewing some of the evidence the wt proposes for their claim of the bible's scientific accuracy, when i came across this interesting assertion.. the mountains rise and fall, and today’s mountains were once under the ocean.

  (psalm 104:​6, 8) in contrast, several myths say that the mountains were created in their current form by the gods.. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/science-and-the-bible/.

  interesting.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  I thought the JW's taught that the pressure of the water caused the mountains to rise to their current height (?)
• 
  12

  When "all" is not "everyone" or "everything."

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  we keep seeing posters bringing col. 1.16 and john 1.3 up as proof that christ is excluded from the creative acts.

  the proof they submit is that the words "all things [gk., pánta]" appear in these texts.

  however, they are missing this important element from the discussion: the word "all" is rarely used in greek, and even in our everyday language to mean literally "everyone" or "everything" under the sky.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  I'm sorry I missed this thread. Thank you!

  People have a tendency to treat Ancient Greek as a cipher that decodes directly into English, which is very frustrating.

  Your example from Genesis is especially illustrative of your point: --ὅτι αὕτη μήτηρ πάντων τῶν ζώντων. (3:20 or 21 depending on what LXX you have.)
  
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  jhine

  The word is πᾶς (pas)

  "πάντα" (panta) is the neuter plural form. Perhaps this is unfamiliar because English is a relatively uninflected language.

  At any rate, I don't quite know what to say.

  Zητήσατε βοήθεια....

  Κάποιος εξοικειωμένος με τη γλώσσα προσπάθησε να σας βοηθήσει και θέλετε να διαφωνήσετε. Τελείωσα. Ίσως ο Earnest να σας βοηθήσει.
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  I guess I'm not quite understanding that assertion that, "all means all."
  

  Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged gives 13 basic definitions for the English word, "all" plus another 20 prepositional/adverbial constructs, for a total of 33 different definitions.

  Johnston divides the use of the Greek word, πᾶς in the NT into two broad categories, which he calls the, "summative" and the, "distributive." The former would be the entire item or set of items taken as a whole, while the latter would be a set of items taken as individuals. He then develops the thesis that usage is based on a combination of syntactical-semantic and exegetical-contextual elements, which strikes me as a teeny, tiny bit more complicated than a singular definition.

  Don't misunderstand. There's nothing wrong with pointing out the NWT does not, in your opinion, accurately convey the writer's overall message. There's nothing wrong in believing that other translations do a much better job in this regard. Most xjw's do..
  

  What's wrong is the idea that the JW's have "changed the verses to alter the meaning." This assumes there is only one possible way the text can be understood, which is simply not true.
  
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  JoenB75

  
  

  Everything is within context of the spoken subject.

  
  

  Yes. Thank you.

  
  

  The NIV is actually much farther from the word for word end of the spectrum than the JW's NWT, and as such, illustrates your point very well

  The Greek text at John 8:2, for example, does not say the people "gathered around" Jesus; it simply says they came to him. (..ἤρχετο πρὸς αὐτόν) This intimation of a smaller, rather cozy circle of people is an embellishment of the translator.
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  jhine,
  

  Luke 3:15 cannot possibly be totally inclusive of all people. Judea was only one small corner of the world even at the time and there were other civilizations that were simply too far away to know or care.

  John 8:2 presents an identical problem. The temple complex could not have accommodated everyone in Jerusalem.
  

  Similarly, if you accept the gospel accounts, it is clear that there were some who did not accept Jesus' message and others who actively opposed it. Luke's assertion that "all praised him" (δοξαζόμενος ὑπὸ πάντων) cannot possibly be totally inclusive. (Luke 4:15)

  I only gave a few examples of this usage, but there are plenty of others.

  Luke 11:41 is a different sort of qualification. Jesus did not wash his hands before dining like a good Pharisee should and responds to the surprise this causes by pointing out the superiority of charity over ritual cleanliness. Jesus' assertion that, "all [things] are clean to you" (πάντα καθαρὰ ὑμῖν ἐστιν) needs to be understood in that context; otherwise it makes no sense.

  
  
• 
  6

  English as a first language

  by road to nowhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  pronunciation is so hard.

  the butchered word this time is scourge pronounced as skorj.

  4 different people, maybe because the reader did it first.. these same ones also pronounce the w in sword.. a pet peeve of mine is blatantly not learning how to speak and pronounce the native tongue.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  More people speaking a language = More regional accents and pronunciations
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  jhine,

  Would you believe that there are entire books about the use of this one word in the NT?
  

  Although the basic meaning of the word, πᾶς is, "all," there are plenty of instances where the usage is qualified in one way or another.

  Here's four quick examples:
  

  And as the people were in expectation, and all men reasoned in their hearts concerning John, whether haply he were the Christ (Luke 3:15)
  

  And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. (Luke 4:15)

  But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, all things are clean unto you. (Luke 11:41)
  

  And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. (John 8:2)

  In none of these instances does the word, "all" in a totally inclusive sense really work. And as the JWs are fond of pointing out, even mainstream translators have inserted the word, "other" at Luke 11:42 and 21:29.

  With deep respect, if we want to criticize the JWs for their doctrinal bias (Which I agree, is very noticeable) than we have to set our own aside.

  Is the insistence that the text has one very clear meaning really a matter of grammar or is it a matter of theology?

  
  
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  Jan,

  If I'm understanding you correctly, I think your question presupposes that there is only one possible way a sentence can be understood.

  Language is not that precise. It's actually very, slippery.

  In another thread, for example, you pointed out that the word, "Other" is not in the Greek text at Colossians 1:15-20, which is true enough, but by the same token, neither is the word, "Things."

  All translators are inserting a word here.

  "Things" and "All things" and "Other things" are all possible ways the word, πάντα could be understood.

  I don't think there is any question that the NWT is favorable to the JW's by design. But in most instances, it is still well within the boundaries of definitions and grammar.
• 
  107

  Do You Trump Should Have Exterminated That Poor Iranian Fellow?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  good move or bad?

  ?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  He got what he deserved...