TD

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Posts by TD

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  10

  Blood and the "Neo-Apologists"

  by TZD in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  for observers of jws on and off the internet, its no secret that certain jw doctrines are in trouble.

  by this i dont mean to imply that these doctrines are subject to any imminent modification or reversal and i dont necessarily even mean to imply that these doctrines are wrong, although in some instances, i believe both to be the case.

  what i mean by the phrase in trouble is that the information published by the jw parent organizations and currently available to jws today is completely inadequate even when it comes to responding to a polite level of inquiry from the average intelligent individual.

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  TD

  Based upon my conversations with various “Neo-Apologists” during the last year, I believe their argument differs from that of Rolf Furuli in three main ways.

  (1) Furuli was willing to recognize that action and matter are distinguishable when it comes to the objects listed in the Decree. (e.g. The abstention from things sacrificed to idols was about the act of idolatry, not about “things” in and of themselves.) However the acknowledgement of this fact necessitates an explanation as to why a claim of equality between the consumption of blood and the transfusion of blood is not simply equivocation. In other words, the two must be linked by moral equality of action, not simply the fact that they are both uses of blood. The Neo-Apologists attempt to avoid this discussion altogether by arguing that the real issue revolves around blood as a substance. Besides creating a semantic inconsistency within the Decree which Furuli apparently wished to avoid, it doesn’t really accomplish anything as the equivocation ends up incorporated in their argument as a core assumption anyway.

  (2) Furuli stated that the principles behind the prohibitions regarding blood were the same as those behind the requirements to preserve life and avoid causing the death of innocents, namely that “Life belongs to God” and “God is the source of life.” However while these principles may support a prohibition against using blood for things it was not designed to do, a prohibition against the use of blood as blood not only does not follow from these principles, it actually runs counter to them. The Neo-Apologists attempt to avoid this contradiction by hypothesizing the principle behind the Law’s prohibitions regarding blood as “Blood is sacred and has been withheld from man’s prerogative.” Not only does this generalize well beyond what they seem willing and able to defend, it pits their hypothesis directly against explicit biblical requirements.

  (3) Furuli argued for a “prohibition” applicable both to all blood and all uses of blood not specifically sanctioned by God. This would have included both allogenic and autologous transfusion. However when the logical viability of this hypothesis was challenged, he appeared somewhat confused and offered no more substantive a response than dismissive indignation. The Neo-Apologists have modified the “prohibition” somewhat by adding the proviso, “or by natural consequence.” In this way “natural” functions of blood are exempted from the “prohibition” and “natural” processes (e.g. The transfer of immunoglobulins between mother and fetus) may also be “mimicked” outside the body. This makes it almost impossible to argue without contradiction against autologous transfusion and this is about the only positive thing I can say about their approach.

  Fe203Girl --

  Although the "Neo-Apologists" tend to be liberal minded in my opinion, they defend the current state of the blood policy tooth & nail. Some of them have gone to great lengths to try and come up with more rational explantions for the use of certain blood components than that offered by the JW parent organizations.
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  10

  Blood and the "Neo-Apologists"

  by TZD in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  for observers of jws on and off the internet, its no secret that certain jw doctrines are in trouble.

  by this i dont mean to imply that these doctrines are subject to any imminent modification or reversal and i dont necessarily even mean to imply that these doctrines are wrong, although in some instances, i believe both to be the case.

  what i mean by the phrase in trouble is that the information published by the jw parent organizations and currently available to jws today is completely inadequate even when it comes to responding to a polite level of inquiry from the average intelligent individual.

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  TD

  Earnest--

  Thanks so much for the links and excerpt.
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  10

  Is JR Brown a liar?

  by William Penwell in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as on an earlier post, an interview with jr brown:.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=43356&site=3.

  when jr was asked, is yours the only path to salvation?

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  TD

  I have several of Brown's interviews on tape. He is a pathological liar completely devoid of conscience.
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  72

  UK Gun Laws: Possession = 5 Years Imprisonment.

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  following the deaths by shooting of 2 teenage girls last week, the uk government is speeding through even tighter gun controls than ever before.. already, high court judges have been told to impose a minimum 5 year jail sentence to anyone found in possesssion of a hand-gun in a public place.

  also, consideration is being given to outlawing replica firearms as well as air powered weapons.

  much is being made of the violent lyrics sometimes contained in rap - music which appears to often endorse gun culture.. see:http://news.bbc.co.uk/ for full story.. englishman..

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  TD

  While reading through this thread I got to thinking about the time three of us (my two brothers-in-law and myself) camping along the San Carlos Indian reservation were attacked by a pack of half-starved feral dogs. We killed about half of them, which was not enough by half.

  Does this sort of thing happen in England? When you're cooking outdoors, do you ever have to worry about what might be attracted by the smell of your fire?

  Just curious

  Tom
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  23

  Oslo hypothesis vs. Jonsson hypothesis

  by scholar in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it has been announced that two forthcoming volumes examing the secular and biblical ecidence for bible chronology are due for publication in the spring, 2003. rolf furuli a semitic language scholar provides a new approach to the many problems associated with current chronology.

  it should be interesting to see how this book will be reviewed in the scholarly literature and compare this material with jonsson's gentile times reconsidered.

  to date i am unaware of any scholarly review of the jonsson hypothesis.

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  TD

  Jonsson's hypothesis?

  Didn't Jonsson simply accept the opinion of the majority of secular scholars as to the date for the conquest of Jerusalem and attempt to harmonize the Bible with the "profane" records? If this is so, it would seem that Jonsson's "hypothesis" would more properly fall under the purview of theologians.

  On the other hand, R. Furuli's approach, if I understand it correctly is to offer an alternative way to view the "profane" records themselves. This would be a horse of a different color altogether as it would challenge the current state of "conventional" scholarly opinion on the subject. As such, it should (and probably will) be subject to a fair amount of review from a variety of secular disciplines.

  Edited by - TD on 9 January 2003 14:44:48
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  6

  commentary on the letter of James?

  by ffeidrik in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i was loyal jw my favorite book was the "commentary on the letter of james".

  only later i heard that it was written by someone who later became "apostate".

  is it true?edited by - ffeidrik on 6 january 2003 14:15:10.

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  TD

  Yes. Edward Dunlap, who wrote both Commentary On The Letter Of James and Choosing The Best Way Of Life was disfellowshipped in the early 80's purge
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  5

  Blood issue & my mom

  by TweetieBird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the other day my mother told me that my brother (no longer a jw) asked her what she thought about the society's policy change on the blood issue.

  my mom told me that she replied, "there's no change.!

  i guess most of the jw's do not have a clue what is going on, and would probably refuse blood components of any kind due to lack of knowledge on the subject and not realizing that some things are now acceptable.

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  TD

  Tweetie--

  Full title is Worship the Only True God -paperback 192 pages.

  It's not hard to get hold of -- feel free to email me.

  Tom
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  13

  What WAS The New Light on 1914?

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok. i admit i'm clueless, but i haven't been involved with the jws for years.

  and i've not heard here what that new light is supposed to be.

  i've been very busy living a jw-free life and enjoying it very much.. could someone please tell me exactly what the lastest flip flop on the 1914 generation is?.

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  TD

  Greetings Francois,

  I'm not an active JW, but through some close family members including my wife, I am somewhat familiar with this.

  I think a point that is sometimes minimized is that redefining the term "generation" requires a redefinition of the term "pass away." You might remember how clearly it had been taught that the "passing away" of "this generation" was death from old age. For example, the publication The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life stated on page 97:

  This generation is getting up in years now. A great number of them have already passed away in death.

  In true Orwellian/Watchtoweresque fashion the more important of the two changes in terms of impact on JW theology had been slipped in a month prior to the November 1st Watchtower.

  In an article entitled "Guard Your Sense Of Urgency", the October 1st, 1995 issue of The Watchtower had stated on page 28:

  "Jehovah God in his infinite wisdom has always given his servants enough information for them to keep their sense of urgency alive. He has kindly assured us that we are in "the last days" of this corrupt system of things. (2 Timothy 3:1) We are continually reminded that we must shine as illuminators until the generation in which we live passes away in the great tribulation, its climax being at HarMagedon.Philippians 2:15; Revelation 7:14; 16:14, 16". (emphasis mine)

  Notice how the "passing away" of the "generation in which we live" is not linked with death from old age but with death at Armagedon. All that remained to complete the transformation is the claim that the "generation in which we live" is what Jesus really had in mind when he used the term.

  Sure enough, one month later, after having argued against defining a generation by its chronological limits The Watchtower stated on page 19:

  "Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus prophecy today, this generation apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christs presence but fail to mend their ways."

  Together, these two adjustments make for a very strained and unlikely way to interpret Jesus words, one that the majority of Witnesses cannot begin to explain. For example, no matter whether it was right or wrong, the JW interpretation of Matthew 24:34 prior to this article at least made sense when the definitions are plugged in:

  Truly I say to you that this generation (those born around 1914) will by no means pass away (all die off from old age) until all these things (the entire sign from parousia to Armageddon) occurs.

  However plugging the new definitions into this verse results in a meaningless tautology:

  Truly I say to you that this generation (the entire human race living during the fulfillment of the sign who take no note of it) will by no means pass away (be executed by at Armageddon) until all these things (the entire sign including Armageddon) occurs.

  If this is really what Jesus meant, you have to wonder why he even bothered to say it. How Witnesses can put up with this type of infantile semantic legerdemain is beyond me. It's a fairly blatant violation of prepositional logic.

  To complicate thngs even further, the Witness doctrine of the great crowd who come out of the great tribulation is inseparably tied to the old understanding of this generation. As the Witnesses understand the term, it would be impossible to even be a prospective member of this great crowd if the tribulation is not going to occur at some future point in your lifetime. Therefore, it is impossible to even identify the group known as the great crowd without defining a generation by its chronological limits

  Tom

  Edited by - TD on 24 December 2002 11:10:8

  Edited by - TD on 24 December 2002 11:11:27

  Edited by - TD on 24 December 2002 11:12:42
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  5

  Viruses that make us Sick

  by orangefatcat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this morning as i was going over to the hospital i heard that another one of the hospitals within the radius of toronto had closed the emergency rooms due to a severe out break of a strain of influenza.

  it was not one of the strains that was included in the flu vaccine this year so it has caused quite a stir in the hospitals and nursing homes and schools.

  as i was talking to my doctor this morning i told him the richmond hill hospital closed down the emer.

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  TD

  I had a little bird and her name was Enza -- I opened up the door and in-flu-Enza

  Seriously though, Influenza is caused by a family of virues by the name of Orthomyxoviridae. These are airborne and infect the respiratory tract

  Norwalk and its kin (e.g. Hawai virus, Snow Mountain virus) belong to a small unclassified family. These are food-borne and infect the G.I. tract.

  Norwalk is not a strain of influenza. It's not even remotely related.

  There is a plant-based vaccine for Norwalk in the works, but I don't believe it is available to the public yet.
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  9

  New opinion on Memorials

  by ChileanRick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here in chile, when the times of memorial its near, you can see a lot of brothers and sister buying new clothes for that ocassion.

  so, when you are attending the memorial meeting, you can feel nobody is listening really.

  everybody is looking how are the others clothed, who is a visitor, and when the meeting gets and end, nobody is really interested in other ones, but only in its friends.

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  TD

  It's hard to blame the Witnesses really. The Memorial is one of the coldest, driest, most stilted, most impersonal religious services I've ever seen. It's small wonder that what they're really looking forward to is going out afterwards and having a real meal with whomever their friends are.