TD

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Posts by TD

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  22

  JW Conventions now accept Mastercard, Visa etc

  by caspian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't know if this has already been posted??.

  according to the uk may kingdom ministry, there will now be facilities in place to accept donations by credit cards and debit cards at all english language conventions.

  as far as i am aware this is the first time that this happened in the uk, although it have have been introduced in other countries at an earlier time.. i suppose that the gb are hoping that the dubs will be so overwhelmed by the "whole convention experience" that they will get themselves into debt, paying money they don't have into the society coffers.. i am also sure that at every break, an announcement will be made explaining exactly where these credit card machine facilities will be.. also another first, next to each contribution box will be a big wad of the gift aid forms, so the wt will get an additional 22% on top paid for by the goverment.

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  TD

  That sounds really smarmy. POS stations for donations is what I would expect from the Trinity Broadcasting Network or Swaggart Ministries, not the JW's

  Curiouser and curiouser
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  110

  Apostates are very disappointing. I just found the WTS is true about them.

  by reason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your conduct, attitude, manner of speech, avatar, all of these shows what sort of hearts you people have.

  i can't feel the holy spirit operating in you people.

  the first time i exposed myself to apostates, i was imagining matured people, more matured than the jw's.

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  TD

  It's too bad about Touchstone isn't it?

  You sound very much like an individual that prefers the illusion to reality. This isn't a church and it's certainly not a Kingdom Hall. Do you honestly think your fellow church members at the Kingdom Hall are that much different when they drop their social masks and truly "let their hair down?" I'd be willing to bet that many if not most of them are normal people too.
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  15

  Does the jelly mould theory hold water?

  by barbar in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i recall the idea that just like a jelly mould that has a dent all of the jellies will also be dented.

  therefore just as adam was imperfect we to would have the imperfection.. if a cook makes a faulty jelly, is it the jelly that would be blamed?

  no, it is the cook for using sub-standard tools or materials.. the same is true with adam, the faulty materials should have been replaced immediately, it is no good blaming the offspring of adam and making them pay for his faults.. i never could understand the suggestion that we had to pay for adams sin.

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  TD

  The "Jelly Mold" is a classic example of misuse of analogy.

  Analogies help us to grasp the principles of specific phenomenon. For example, you might explain the flow of electricity to a child by comparing it to water flowing through a pipe. Or you might explain the relationship of pistons, connecting rods and the crankshaft of an engine by comparing it to a bicyclist pedaling a bike.

  The point here is the established phenomenon must exist first and then and only then comes your attempt to explain by comparison with something else.

  With the "Jelly Mold" this process is backwards and it doesn't work that way. In other words, the analogy is composed prior to the identification of any specific phenomenon. Even if we assume just for the sake of discussion that the Genesis account is true, what exactly changed in Adam when he sinned? What actually is "perfection." Nobody knows and that's the problem. Concocting analogies to explain the unknown is just plain backwards.
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  49

  How many of you are smokers?

  by Joker10 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  it seems that a lot of people on this board are smokers?

  lets get some figures.

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  TD

  I'm a runner, (though not in the same league as Princess) not a smoker.
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  26

  Name a ridiculious quote from the WT literature!

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any takers?

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  TD

  Hi Snapdragon,

  Which one?

  "The American woman wants her man to wait on her, and that is where her European sister wins out, she not only waits on her man but likes it. Awake! August 8, 1954 p.22

  This was a 50's era rant about what's wrong with "modern women." It even makes my JW wife roll her eyes and laugh when I read this stuff out loud.

  "Men have made atomic powerhouses?thermonuclear reactors?and their output of energy is greater than that by any other means. But they have to be monitored constantly for fear of a devastating explosion." Life Does Have a Purpose p.10 This quote was wrong on two fronts. First of all, commercial generating reactors are not "thermonuclear," which is a term used in reference to hydrogen fusion. They are strictly fission reactors. Secondly, they are not capable of producing a bomb-like reaction under any circumstances. The fuel rods contain only something like 1/30th the necessary concentration of the fissionable isotope P239. "You know you have a heart in your chest, one that is pumping blood throughout your entire body, serving every single cell with that stream of life. But do you have another ?heart? in your head, a ?figurative heart?? Is it part of your brain or is it that abstract capacity of the brain that we call the ?mind?? No! The brain, in which the mind resides, is one thing and the heart in our thorax, with its power of motivation, is another thing." The Watchtower March 1, 1971 p. 134 This was Fred Franz at his finest. The above quote was part of a larger article claiming that Biblical references to the "heart" like, "Guard your heart," or "Out of the heart's abundance, the mouth speaks" were made in regard to the literal heart ---that organ in your chest which pumps your blood. In other words, there was no such thing as a figurative heart. You see, according to JW's at the time, your brain was responsible for information processing alone and your heart was responsible for all your emotions. (If you ask me, I think Freddy was secretly watching Star Trek.....) As an example of how your heart and mind could war with each other, consider a quote from the accompanying article. Keep in mind that all references to the "heart" were talking about the heart in your chest: "To illustrate, suppose the time comes when you must make a decision on buying a new suit or dress. First, the mind is confronted with certain facts. Perhaps older clothes are getting past their usefulness or there is a need for a change for some good reason. The heart comes very much into the picture too, as there is a desire at heart to look presentable. Heart and mind are in agreement that a new dress or suit be obtained. The mind now collects information on prices, quality, styles, and so forth, so that when you go shopping you have a pretty good idea which suit or dress should be purchased. But when you arrive at the store, there in the window is quite an eye-catcher, just waiting for the impulse buyer. It is not really practical for you; it involves much more money; it is rather extreme in styling; but how it tantalizes the heart! ?It?s the heart?s delight!? Now what will be done? What decision will be made? Will it be a practical, reasoned-out one, or one according to this new desire of the heart? If you are not very careful, the heart will overwhelm the mind. You will be motivated to follow a course against your better judgment." The Watchtower March 1, 1971 p. 140 At the Divine Name district assembly of JW's in 1971, there was a drama entitled "What Is In Your Heart?" As the characters in this drama were faced with difficult decisions, there were 8 foot tall models of the brain and heart in the background that would light up and argue with each other. I'm sure there are others here besides myself that remember it, maybe Blondie for example. (The main thing I remember was wanting to crawl under the chair in embarassment.) Tom
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  44

  Why JW Enemies Will Fail? - A Consultant's Analysis

  by reason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as an it business consultant, i always use michael porter's competetive forces model to assess whether a firm's e-business strategy will give them a competitive advantage against competitor's.. the competitive forces model identifies five forces in the industry that a firm needs to contend with to become successful.

  these forces are the:.

  1) bargaining power of customers.

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  TD

  Reason,

  Your analysis is interesting, but speaking as a third party intimately familiar with JW's, (The spouse of an active JW) it seems rather one-sided.

  Bargaining power of customers (the members) The 'switching cost' is to high. If a member leaves the WTS, he/she will suffer from being disfellowshiped and loose friends and family.

  The "switching cost" is indeed high, but assuming that the member in question is thinking of leaving, this is offset by the cost of doing nothing. Once a member becomes disillusioned with the JW's, the third grade reading level, shameless self aggrandizing and extremely poor reasoning commonly manifest in Witness publications literally renders such a member physically ill by the end of every meeting. Ex-members have related here and elsewhere how the mere sound of one of your "Kingdom Melodies" could induce nausea and in extreme cases, panic attacks. Eventually, the cost of doing nothing more than exceeds the swithching cost.

  Bargaining power of suppliers (the apostates and other denominations)
  The apostates don't really have a tangible product to substitute the WTS product. All they can do is try to prove the WTS is wrong, that's about it.

  I believe you wrongly assess and mischaracterize who and what "apostates" are. These, by and large are simply individuals who have "been there" and for various reasons, want to help. (e.g. Active JW's who went through the emotional turmoil of leaving.) You may disagree with "apostates," you may want nothing to do with either them or their "help," you may well think that such "help" is not only uneccessary, but deletarious in the long run and that's fine. But the point is, "apostates" make no attempt to tell you what to do with your life.

  The "tangible product" if indeed there is one, is a gift from God that no human can bestow: --- Freedom. I know this is difficult for an active JW to fathom, but t here are literally as many different satisfying solutions to how an individual will realocate the time, energy and resources comsumed by the JW organization as there are people. Some of those solutions involve religion and some do not.

  New entrants into the market
  There are no new religions around to match the WTS product.

  Here you not only seem to promote the "Where shall we go" fallacy promulgated by the JW's, you couple this with a purely subjective assessment of your own. (And remove any lingering shadow of doubt regarding your own personal religioius affliation.)

  First of all, an equivalent or for that matter, even a similar replacement for the JW organization is not necessary as an "alternative product." Many, upon leaving the JW organization do so with the idea that Christianity is best expressed individually or through loose-knit groups.

  For exiting JW's, who already believe that "true Christianity" was fragmented and without a clear identity for over 90% of its existence, (e.g. From soon after the Apostles died clear up until the late 19th century) this is not a difficult concept at all.

  Second, w hat does or doesn't comprise a suitable "match" for the JW "product" can and does vary widely by individual. That there is no such match is strictly your opinion and while you have as much right to it as your fellow, it obviously wouldn't entitle you to speak for him.

  Substitute products and services
  Substitutes products (hellfire, immortality of the soul, trinity). JWs have learned to reject these doctrines. It is hard to deprogram them to embrace it again.

  This is simply a variant of the above fallacy and creates as a result, a needless bifucaration. There is no need for an exiting JW to join any other church and even if he or she does, there is no need to join one that teaches doctines unpalatable to the individual in question. Perhaps that's why some of your ex-members gravitate to your (more pleasant) doctrinal first-cousins, the Bible Students.

  
  Existing competitors
  Roman Catholic Church, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Salvation Army. JWs are programmed to view them as false religions. It is hard to deprogram them to embrace it again.

  This yet again promotes the idea that an organizational replacement is required. And yet again, most exiting JW's do so with a very pronounced anti-organizational attitude. Your most direct competition is therefore, not another religion but freedom from the relentless and thankless treadmill of your own religion.

  
  OTHER FACTORS

  Marketing
  Zealous evangelizing of the JWs will only enable them to recuit more members as time goes by.

  This is not to belittle your evangelizing efforts which are quite sincere, I'm sure. However your methods are extremely inefficient and steadily becoming more so -- something on the order of several thousand hours per baptism and climbing. Knocking on doors today is not only irritating, it immediately puts the occupant on the defensive. This is not the 1930's anymore and for better or for worse, there are so many forms of entertainment available within the home that human gregariousness no longer seems to extend to strangers like it once did.

  
  Medicine on their side
  For the blood issue, alternatives are coming up and the field of medicine is now buying the idea of bloodless surgery.

  Medicine is not on your side. You are horribly misinformed. Although JW's do reasonably well in scheduled surgery, (The most favorable study done in regard to your tranfusion medicine taboo only showed a 1% increase in mortality) there are many other conditions related to both pathology and trauma that require the use of blood products. There are, for example no substitutes for platelets and none on the forseeable horizon. While the need for red cells is predicted to begin dropping in the near future, the opposite is true with platelets. The need will climb sharply in next 25 years of so.

  
  Past mistakes of interpretation
  The JW GB are now vocal in their admission of the past mistakes they did. After all, they are only humans.

  The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is anything but vocal regarding past mistakes --- so much so that most active JW's are scarcely aware of them. What you suggest would probably be the most effective means of taking the wind out of the sails of JW critics, but it never quite seems to come to fruition in a meaningful way.

  How many JW's for example can even begin to enumerate the number of reversals that have been made regarding the blood issue? Can you?

  Management styleAs the management is changing and getting younger in terms of age, old 'beaucratic traditional culture' is slowly changing to a more relax management style.

  For observers such as myself, the opposite seems to be true. Your religion really appears to be entering a cyclic clamp-down, at least insofar as doctrine is concerned. Once again, they are becoming more vocal and strident on views they would be better off to allow to slowly die. Just to take one completely harmless example; How many intelligent JW's really believe that God created the lion to eat straw? Reasoning people within the JW's are going to have an aggravating 5 years or so and a cynical individual might conclude that this is the whole point.
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  102

  New BLOOD Watchtower - June 15, 2004 Issue!

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower, june 15, 2004 issue, pages 14-24:.

  " for the benefit of current readers, the answer is reprinted on pages 29-31 of this magazine.

  19 near its conclusion, the reprinted answer on pages 29-31 says: "does the fact that opinions and conscientious decisions may differ mean that the issue is inconsequential?

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  TD

  Hello Earnest,

  Interesting question.

  Although suspending the carcass and severing both carotids and jugulars is a necessary first step, it is scarcely more than a token when it is the only step. Gravity is not sufficient to drain small capillaires and the valves in the heart and peripheral veins are specifically designed to prevent a backflow of blood. It's for this reason that Jews salt and soak any meat they do not immediately broil. When this is not done, it is difficult to consider blood as a substance as being the real issue at stake, since it is consumed either way.
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  26

  Name a ridiculious quote from the WT literature!

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any takers?

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  TD

  You know you have a heart in your chest, one that is pumping blood throughout your entire body, serving every single cell with that stream of life. But do you have another ?heart? in your head, a ?figurative heart?? Is it part of your brain or is it that abstract capacity of the brain that we call the ?mind?? No! The brain, in which the mind resides, is one thing and the heart in our thorax, with its power of motivation, is another thing.

  The Watchtower March 1, 1971 p. 134
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  26

  Name a ridiculious quote from the WT literature!

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any takers?

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  TD

  Men have made atomic powerhouses?thermonuclear reactors?and their output of energy is greater than that by any other means. But they have to be monitored constantly for fear of a devastating explosion.

  Life Does Have a Purpose p.10
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  26

  Name a ridiculious quote from the WT literature!

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any takers?

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  TD

  "The American woman wants her man to wait on her, and that is where her European sister wins out, she not only waits on her man but likes it.

  Awake! August 8, 1954 p.22