so... mr. slayer, why should i go see it (it's already on my list)?
being an amatuer movie critic, what's so great about it?
don't worry... you can't ruin it for me.
Posts by teejay
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17Go see Planet Of The Apes!
by SlayerLayer init was awesome!
i had to talk my wife into going to see it, and now she wants to see it again!.
slayer
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113
Silentlambs and Signifiers that Signify Nothing
by dunsscot incall me a neopositivist, a semi-verificationist or semi-falsificationist, but the claims made by "silentlambs" reminds me of the shakespearean line that was quoted in the creator book published by the wtbts.
that is, the contentions of silentlambs seem like much "sound and fury" that in truth signify nothing.
i am of course referring to the supposed dateline show and the claims made about some members of the gb of jehovah's witnesses.
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teejay
Isis,
I notice this is your first post. So, considering the topic, I'm a little uncomfortable saying "welcome." Newbie to JW.com, not to life. I fully understand the difference.
It's a damn shame that you saw fit to make your entry to JW.com on this particular thread. Personally, I can't say that I "like" dunsscot (the author of this thread) but he does amuse me. His style... uh... tickles my brain. Don't hold the thread against him. He's a victim, too. He just may not be aware of it.
That being said, bear with my following bluntness: I don't hate many things and very very few people (I can't think of any), except men who abuse women and men who abuse children. I have a young daughter, and the man/woman who fools with her in that way will pay, and I don't mean from Caesar. See, I'm a vigilante at heart, so... well... take it from there.
Even though I don't know you, your experience pains me to my heart. No child, no place, should have to bear that kind of horror all life long. The perpetrator of it, if they are put to death, should not be mourned, even though a good percentage of them were similarly abused as youngsters. Once you've lived through something, you should know the pro and con of it. Pedophiles who have lived through the hell of it, but pass it on, are not to be pitied.
We look forward to your comments on other matters. Hope you can help ohters, knowing what you know.
peace,
tj -
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Brother Salda
by teejay inthe last memorial service/funeral i went to at a kingdom hall was for brother salda (his real name).
funny, but i can't think of his first name (his wife's name is eileen); as for him, i only remember "brother salda.".
brother salda was a very intelligent man, but not a very good dub.
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teejay
Joel,
Its hard for me to separate sometimes the hatred I have for the false doctrines and ludicrous policies from the people that I knew.
I understand, but I'm just the opposite. To be honest, I see only victims, from the GB on up. They are all victims of a nameless, faceless thing called "the Society." Didn't Orwell have something to say about this?
Lucky for us, something happened in our life where something made us stop and think, do research, question. "If not for the grace of god..."
I knew some very good people, and if it weren't for their ties to the org, we'd be close friends to this day... going to movies, regularly having long talks and laughs over drinks and good music. Got me shaking my head...
I loved more of them than I didn't. I miss many of them more than they will ever know.
Me, too, Joel ... me, too.
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hello, MadApostate,
(cool name, btw. I can relate.)
Your story about this fine man who was ostracized because he did not fit the JW male mold...
I didn't mention it, but out of the blue Brother Salda would commence to speak about the mathematics, geology, and geography that came into play when state and federal highways were being laid out. Needless to say, it wouldn't be long before he lost me completely, though I tried my best to hang on. To him, it was second nature (what do you expect from a guy who carried a computer in his shirt pocket?), but he was NEVER condescending--I always got the impression that he thought that I understood what he was saying... I put on a good act, I guess. Brother Salda gave lousy #2 talks, though, and public prayers left him very, very flustered. Go figure. Like I said, he wasn't a very good dub.
... reminded me of an sister I once knew who was also ostracized despite her giving 110% to what she believed to be the only way to worhip God.
The widow who gave her all (the so-called "widow's mite") that Jesus spoke of, if such a woman were alive today, would be visited by the Service Overseer and the CO, I'm afraid. They'd want to know what her problem was. Her fine example is paid lip service in the magazines, but in the real JW world, her course of life wouldn't carry much weight. They'd wonder what the hell was wrong with her.
That's the thought I had when I read what you had to say about the sister that you knew who did her best to attend the mtgs. The little ones don' t mean much in the org. -- only the Elders, the Pioneers, the Bethelites, in other words: the "glorious ones".
Near the end of my involvement with the movement, I wondered why the CO specialized in spending time with the strongest of the congregation when he came around when, as far as I could tell, Jesus did just the opposite. Why not go to see those who haven't been to the mtgs in a while? The inactive? Those in the nursing homes. It didn't make sense to me... until I thought about it.
Do you know what happened to her? People like her have my heart. Make no mistake --the people of the earth... they're the best.
tj,
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"it's not the last straw that breaks the camels back." -
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Brother Salda
by teejay inthe last memorial service/funeral i went to at a kingdom hall was for brother salda (his real name).
funny, but i can't think of his first name (his wife's name is eileen); as for him, i only remember "brother salda.".
brother salda was a very intelligent man, but not a very good dub.
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teejay
The last memorial service/funeral I went to at a Kingdom Hall was for Brother Salda (his real name). Funny, but I can't think of his first name (his wife's name is Eileen); as for him, I only remember "Brother Salda."
Brother Salda was a very intelligent man, but not a very good Dub. His wife and three sons were all JWs. He worked for the state as a civil engineer, I think. In his own way he was brilliant, but not without his quirks. Those quirks got him laughed at (and away from any meaningful position in the cong.), laughs that were usually behind his back, but not always. As far as I could tell, he came to the religion reluctantly, since his wife wasn't going to give it up, and I was always under the impression that if he wanted to have any kind of relationship with his sons he figured he better get with the JW program. He did.
Brother Salda had one quirk that drove most people insane, if not just away from his presence--he hugged everybody and he never quit. And when I say everybody, that's what I mean. Sisters, brothers, elders. Most thought he was odd, and so did I.
The thing is, because of how I grew up, I had a hard time expressing affection for anyone, even people in my family that I loved. Somehow, over time, Brother Salda broke down that very thick wall that life had created for me. In spite of the jokes that others made about him, I can say that I came to love Brother Salda. He'd come up and greet you, and never seemed to be able to talk to you--asking how your week had been or sharing an experience of his own--without putting his arm firmly around your shoulder, something that got under my skin... until I learned to like it... learned to look forward to it. It was something my own father had NEVER done.
Anyway... after cutting a neighbor's yard, he died rather suddenly one day about 6 or 8 years ago, and although by that time I had reached the point that going into a Kingdom Hall made my skin crawl, I loved the man and what he had done for me, so I thought I'd honor him by going to his funeral service at the KH. So, I did.
At the time, Donna, his teenaged granddaughter, was disfellowshipped, having spent the remaining months of her grandfather's life apart from him. During the service at the KH, others asked Robert, one of the local elders of high repute, if it was Okay to go up and speak to her. He advised that it was probably not a good idea. So, they didn't.
Now, the entire Salda family, from Brother Salda on down, were always people of high honor to me, and coupled with my disdain for JW etiquette, I couldn't care less for Elder Robert's admonition. I went out of my way, making my way to the front of the Hall and took my time speaking to Donna and the rest of the family. I honestly sympathized with their loss in ways they don't know to this day.
One day this past week my Brother/Friend Aaron sent me an article from his local paper about funeral services (a post for another time) that made me think of, not my father, not my grandmothers or others that I have lost, but of Brother Salda.
I thought I'd speak of him.
I hope you don't mind.
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35
What first made you doubt?
by Simon inthere will be one about what your favourite color is later... .
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teejay
when it took them less than 10 minutes (w/out a 2nd mtg) for them to hear the decision from their god to df me (after my 30+ years of heartfelt devotion...). i had to step back and take a second look. it was all uphill from there.
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Today's brief JW encounter
by joelbear inso mitch and i are out shopping and we come to the target superstore parking lot and we stop to wait for a car to pull out which is close to the store.
so, this car comes from the other direction and swoops in and edges us out of the space.
the guy driving just looks at me, like "tough, i got the space.
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teejay
You are better than me, Joel.
I woulda said something. Wouldn't have picked a fight, but I woulda said something. Like: "You must be one of those fake Christians who supposedly loves their fellow man." I've done it before. I like to see them skirm.
The frailty of the 'holy spirit' to make changes in the lives of people. Ya gotta love it.
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When God Hides His Face
by teejay indavid and nancy both carry a recessive gene for a disorder called zellweger syndrome, a disease for which there is no cure.
against 1 in 100,000 odds, they had a child who was born with the syndrome.
they named her hope, who struggled with life for 199 days.
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teejay
Whaddup, Rex? You asked good questions. Maybe dunsscott would be better suited to answer, or larc. Perhaps I should have started my comment to Seeker with "usually the scientific method is ..."
I seem to recall in seventh grade science class something about lab experiments on fruit flies, vis-à-vis evolution--the problem with "proving" evolution experimentally is that it takes so damn long... As far as I know, life has not been created out of non-life in any lab or surely I would have heard about it. As far as the " intermediaries that should exist now and in the fossil record"... it's something that I have always wondered about, also. The so-called "missing links" between humans and apes should be all over the place, I agree, but where are they? Again, I am poorly qualified to address your query. It's just another of those conundrums that keeps me from becoming an all-out atheist.
Lastly, your question: "Where is your next research grant coming from if you don't seek conclusions that your peers agree with?" definitely points to the human bias that exists even in the scientific arena, an imperfection that leans toward covering up vital truths while giving continued life to falsehood.
All too often it matters which "camp" you're in. This truth can be seen over and over again in practically every sphere of human interaction, whether in a science lab, in a Kingdom Hall, in politics, or on an on-line discussion board. Wherever you find humans, you'll find this ubiquitous component. Who you are is often as important (if not more so) as what you have to say. It's a stifling fact of human nature, to be sure.
Still, I like the scientific approach to arriving at truth. Instead of starting with a premise and looking for proof like the Watchtower does, generally true truth-seekers start at the other end, with the facts, before saying "this, that or the other is true."
peace
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When God Hides His Face
by teejay indavid and nancy both carry a recessive gene for a disorder called zellweger syndrome, a disease for which there is no cure.
against 1 in 100,000 odds, they had a child who was born with the syndrome.
they named her hope, who struggled with life for 199 days.
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teejay
Hi, Prisca. Long time, my Friend.
Who said God had anything to do with the life and death of this child? I'm sorry if this sounds a little harsh, but I sometimes wonder why people drag God into things that are just part and parcel of this world. Life is unjust. Things are unfair.
It's probably my fault, but I only posted snippets of the article. If you want, I can send you the whole thing. In it, David, the husband, has the attitude that god had nothing to do with the birth defects of his children, that it was just a matter of bad genetics. It's his wife (and others of his church who have an overwhelming faith in "god") who interjects god's hand into it.
I'm with you--I don't blame 'God' for the bad in my life or thank him for the good. Most (if not all) of what's happened to me--the good and the bad--has been due to good/bad luck and products of the good/bad descisions I've made. Period.
I don't think the David of the magazine article would have a problem with that.
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When God Hides His Face
by teejay indavid and nancy both carry a recessive gene for a disorder called zellweger syndrome, a disease for which there is no cure.
against 1 in 100,000 odds, they had a child who was born with the syndrome.
they named her hope, who struggled with life for 199 days.
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teejay
Seeker,
Recently, someone (I forget who) said that the Society's way is to establish a truth, a conclusion, and then finding scriptural proof that will support it. That basic maxim also applies to even non-JWs whose belief system stands on the basic tenet of "there is an all-powerful, all-loving god who is in control of everything," a belief for which there is no tangible proof.
The scientific method starts with empirical data, the formation of a hypothesis, experimentation and verification, then arriving at a conclusion. I like that method better. Not nearly as glamorous but a lot more sound.
I feel sorry for David and Nancy, although of the two, David seems to be the least religious, less willing to attribute everything to god's intervention. I thought it was interesting where he said, "Without a couple of bedrock assumptions, none of this makes sense to anybody."
It was a sad story. It made me think of dubs. If their newborn arrived on time, he should be about two weeks old.
peace,
todd -
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When God Hides His Face
by teejay indavid and nancy both carry a recessive gene for a disorder called zellweger syndrome, a disease for which there is no cure.
against 1 in 100,000 odds, they had a child who was born with the syndrome.
they named her hope, who struggled with life for 199 days.
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teejay
David and Nancy both carry a recessive gene for a disorder called Zellweger Syndrome, a disease for which there is no cure. Against 1 in 100,000 odds, they had a child who was born with the syndrome. They named her Hope, who struggled with life for 199 days. (After learning she had the disease, David got a vasectomy.)
Since they knew she wouldn't live long, they celebrated her birthday monthly with birthday parties. It was said she lacked the brain capacity to suffer, but Nancy is not so sure--some nights her daughter whimpered for hours. One night in the seventh month, David went to check on her. Her body was really cool. She was gone. Nancy changed her daughter's diaper one last time.
Now, in spite of his vasectomy, they are expecting another child. He shared the news with their church. After recounting Hope's brief history, he announced, "we're now expecting a child, a little boy." His listeners oohed, ahhed and applauded. "Thank you," David said. "And this little boy will be born with the same syndrome Hope had." Quite audible on the videotape of the event is the sound of several hundred people gasping. Their new child, expected July 16, will almost certainly be dead within a year.
Some of their fellow church members have cast a positive light on their ordeal.
"I think David and Nancy have been entrusted with something [God] couldn't entrust to anybody else," says one. "I think God is intrigued with your faithfulness," he tells David.
"With Hope, the rubber met the road," another said. "At a time like this, you either believe or not." He says the group finally concluded that "we will go down with the ship, believing in our hearts that God is in control."
Some thought this recommitment may have been part of God's plan. At Hope's memorial, Bob, a group member who has since died of heart failure, said, "The Bible says, 'A little child shall lead them.' Make no mistake about it; this dear, precious child did lead us."
But that rationale was more satisfying before the news of this new pregnancy. "Why twice?" asks Bob's widow. "What can God be thinking? Why not give somebody else this experience and let them do some growing?" Nancy says, "I don't think God is obligated to relate His reasons to me."
David relates that recently a neighbor said to him, "Forgive me. I'm not as holy as you are. This kind of thing makes me want to look up and say, 'God? What the f*** are You doing?'"
One Sunday-group participant, remarks of God that "if You took my son, I wouldn't doubt You were alive; I just wouldn't talk with You anymore."
Nancy recalls that after Hope died, she was reading the story of the leper who says to Jesus, "Lord, if You are willing, make me clean." Jesus cured him, replying, "I am willing."
"When I looked at that," says Nancy, her eyes welling up, "I thought He was saying to me, 'I was not willing [to spare Hope].'"
Yet, Nancy believes "God's thoughts are perfect." She has even begun to wonder whether such prayers aren't a bit lazy, secular America's tendency to seek comfort rather than moral challenge. Nancy was surprised when several Christian friends suggested that no one would judge her if she had an abortion, an option the couple never considered.
Says David: "Without a couple of bedrock assumptions, none of this makes sense to anybody."
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From When God Hides His Face by David Van Biema
in the July 18 issue of Time Magazine