ThatSucks

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Posts by ThatSucks

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  30

  Dateline

  by Jacinta in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my mom (a jw) watched the dateline program.

  i asked her the next day what she thought of it.

  she told me that erica was not a jw and that is why they did not support her in court.

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  ThatSucks

  :: He goes into therapy and begins deal with being raped at 8 by three teenage boys in a "Church School" growing up and continues to be molested though his teens. Begins to understand and piece together what the abuse is doing to his life and where all the fears and anxieties are coming from. He also realizes that he has followed in the steps of his abusers and has also vicitimized others. He goes to the elders AND families in the congregation realizing the need of change and asking for help in doing so. He's not 'reported' by the elders he confides in, but is severely reprooved.

  MANY MANY IF's here. One you seemed to miss...

  *IF* the boy had told on the boys who raped them, and saw JUSTICE administered as those three boys PAID FOR THEIR CRIME. The victimized boy probably would have never... EVER... molested anyone else and put them under the same pain that he went through.

  Now, *IF* he told the authorities within the church and they COVERED IT UP instead of letting him CONFRONT his abusers, AND let the molestation CONTINUE, then you can see just why he became a molester himself. It was the only way he could reconcile the injustice done to him. Does it explain it? Possibly. Does it EXCUSE it? Definately NOT. Could it have been avoided. QUITE PROBABLY!

  Your problem is you are sympathising and analyzing the ABUSER after it is TOO LATE. If you concentrate on the VICTIM's recovery, then you will most likely stop the victim from becoming the ABUSER later on in life.
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  30

  Dateline

  by Jacinta in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my mom (a jw) watched the dateline program.

  i asked her the next day what she thought of it.

  she told me that erica was not a jw and that is why they did not support her in court.

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  ThatSucks

  :: I've not heard anyone mention what they believe the WT's policy should be. Usually, when someone is bitching about something with no solutions, there's more behind it than the 'topic at hand'. Usually pain. ::

  Well, last I "heard", those in the silentlambs camp wanted the WT to encourage the victims to GO TO THE POLICE and bypass the elders completely regarding criminal matters.

  Of course, you no doubt missed this because of your particular grinding of the axe to those attempting to help abuse victims.

  :: Let's twalk amoungst ourselves. Topic: What is it that 'we' want!? Or are we on a quest for 'control' over something that, although we should have control over, we don't have, and will not have control over in the world we live in? ::

  How about let's not get off of the topic at hand, which seems to be your M.O. at this point. The WT policy as trickled down to the elders provides a HAVEN for those that would take advantage of innocent children. No amount of rhetoric you can spew will change that. All it does is attempt to COVER IT UP.
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  165

  DATELINE: BLACK ART OF PROPAGANDA

  by You Know in

  1. social
  2. current

  hardly anyone has an honest opinion about anything of importance that wasnt craftily pre-packaged and handed to them by someone else whose job it is to craft public opinion.

  the intention of the media is to present the illusion of impartially informing, all the while pandering to prejudice and ignorance in order to persuade to a particular point of view.

  datelines presentation of the watchtowers child abuse issue was a case study in the black art of media propaganda.. from the very beginning of the presentation dateline was intent on giving the public a negative impression of jehovahs witnesses by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we dont celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the devil and that we want them all to die.

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  ThatSucks

  Wow! You Know is human after all.

  Robert (If I may) Thank you for being so honest with larc in your previous response. Your faith in your beliefs (however misguided, IMO) and standing up for your convictions is both honorable and admirable.

  I'm glad to see you come off of cloud 9 for once.
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  51

  My daughter called this am/after 3yrs

  by DannyBear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  iam pleased to report, my jw daughter called me this morning.. needless to say i was thrilled to hear from her.

  as many of you know to well, it is a small blessing, but huge when it's coming from an active jw.. i have decided to leave off talking anything jw related, and just enjoy getting caught up on the latest in her life.. there is hope.. danny

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  ThatSucks

  ''
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  28

  Would a JW Elder consider physical evidence?

  by ThatSucks in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was wondering if anyone could comment on the likelyhood of a witness elder considering physical evidence of molestation.

  so far all i am hearing about is the 2+ witness rule and i would like further clarification.. if sally-sue's parents walked up to elder marvin and said: 'hey!

  brother phaux raped my sally!

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  ThatSucks

  Everyone:

  :: To even suggest, even jokingly that a child could be examined by an elder for physical evidence is to suggest abuse on top of the original abuse.

  Although I did not start this thread as a joke, I would like to apologize to any and all parents and other sensitive individuals if by starting this thread I have offended.
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  23

  BOWEN'S COMMON CAUSE

  by BATHORY in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm still thinking this through, so i invite differing perspectives from the board members.. if bill bowen's mission is to expose the wt policy on molestation, and hence by this exposure ellicit a favourable change to their paradigm, wouldnt he as a result be inadvertently " cleansing " the wt, making it " better " ?.

  this obviously being a fruitage of his works, and the fact that he has the unequivocal support of most xjw's ( like you fine folk ) wouldnt that mean that you guys would then be a part of that aforementioned work, that of improving the wt image and policy.. therefore the question is cloaked by a seeming contradiction in the form of a paradox, namely..... by supporting billy boy are you destroying the wt image or refurbing it ?.

  does god really work in such a mysterious way ?

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  ThatSucks

  Hey JANH.

  It's good to see you posting again. You may have posted elsewhere here, but this is the first post I've seen.
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  28

  Would a JW Elder consider physical evidence?

  by ThatSucks in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was wondering if anyone could comment on the likelyhood of a witness elder considering physical evidence of molestation.

  so far all i am hearing about is the 2+ witness rule and i would like further clarification.. if sally-sue's parents walked up to elder marvin and said: 'hey!

  brother phaux raped my sally!

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  ThatSucks

  Matrix:

  : Why do you lower yourself to the point of insult me? :

  Because you 'lower yourself' to fraternize with apostates. It's human nature to oppose one another. With your head in the clouds, you didn't forget that you are human did you?

  : You said "If Sally-Sue's parents walked up to Elder Marvin and said: 'Hey! Brother Phaux raped my Sally! Here, look at her! HER ANUS IS BRUISED!!!' What would the Elder do?"

  I only said that would not be appropiate. What is the elder going to say? "O.k., honey drop your skirt and panties so I can examine your anus" I mean that's just inappropiate. Now if the parents say that the Anus is bruised, then of course the elder should believe them, why would they lie? They should confront the abuser with the physcial evidence and pressure him to confess. :

  An unfortunate miscommunication. I thought you were referring to your idea of taking the girl to the doctor. Perhaps you should be more clear next time on just exactly what you mean.
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  38

  Cases involving minors

  by TheMatrix in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many on this forum criticize elders as being incompetent.

  i've know a few myself, but you must agree that there are also very good elders also.. well, here is a case and i would like to know what you would do if you were an elder.. a fourteen (14) year old male has sex with a twelve (12) year old female.

  the female confesses to her parents and the parents report to the elders.

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  ThatSucks

  Matrix:

  :: Your #5 is highly specious. Every witness (including elders) I have ever talked to say "We don't need therapists or psychologists, we have God's word to help us through the tough times!" ::

  : This is true, I think they call that the "old school". I think younger elders now adays have a different view and appreciate the job that experienced counselors do. :

  "old school"? Is that anything like "new light"? Or perhaps I am hearing "bull shit"?

  :: By the way Matrix, you forgot to warn the girl not to tell anyone else in the congregation about that incident and to leave it in Jehovahs hands because he would take care of it in his own due time. ::

  : Well in Erica's case it wouldn't matter if she talked to others in the congregation about it since she was living in California and the abuser was from Washington (?I think I remember she said Washington)

  I think it's up to the victim if she wants to talk to other about it or not. Most of the time, I don't think they do since they feel embarrased about what happened and it hurts them to talk about it with others. :

  A noble gesture that may have you removed as an elder for reasons another poster earlier has stated. Have you forgotten the usefulness of 'needs talks'? Do you not trust in the Theocratic Order?

  : I do agree with you that I would have told her that Jehovah will take care of it in due time, but some steps can be taken in the meanwhile. Informing the police of the crime is one of them. :

  That is, if you are in a reporting state. If you are not in a reporting state, you would not tell the cops about the crime committed, and you know it.
• 
  165

  DATELINE: BLACK ART OF PROPAGANDA

  by You Know in

  1. social
  2. current

  hardly anyone has an honest opinion about anything of importance that wasnt craftily pre-packaged and handed to them by someone else whose job it is to craft public opinion.

  the intention of the media is to present the illusion of impartially informing, all the while pandering to prejudice and ignorance in order to persuade to a particular point of view.

  datelines presentation of the watchtowers child abuse issue was a case study in the black art of media propaganda.. from the very beginning of the presentation dateline was intent on giving the public a negative impression of jehovahs witnesses by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we dont celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the devil and that we want them all to die.

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  ThatSucks

  :: You can't fool me Fraudbacker

  Nope. Nobody can fool You Know. He's too busy fooling himself.
• 
  28

  Would a JW Elder consider physical evidence?

  by ThatSucks in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was wondering if anyone could comment on the likelyhood of a witness elder considering physical evidence of molestation.

  so far all i am hearing about is the 2+ witness rule and i would like further clarification.. if sally-sue's parents walked up to elder marvin and said: 'hey!

  brother phaux raped my sally!

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  ThatSucks

  :: With regards to your example, we have to remember that the child that was abused has gone through enough. Why would you subject her to so much humiliation as you recommend? It's better for a doctor to examine her, as I mentioned before.

  What humiliation would that be dipmuffin? How is your humiliation brought on by the advice to contact social services by the society (you hope) initiated by an elder any different than a social services initiated by the elder on advice from the police? To the child it's the same humiliation, you dipmuffin.

  Your primary concern is not spreading the word that a witness child was raped by another witness. That is the ONLY reason you would call a service department with an agenda that goes beyond the best interests of the victim.

  We must remember that when justice is served, dipmuffin, it's not humiliation. It's VINDICATION.

  It's a nice idea though. Too bad it would be 'inappropriate'.