Posts by Unstuck

2

Faulty Decrees Conceal Criminals

by Bill Covert in

just finished barbara on a&e she quoted from her article "faulty decrees conceal criminals" posted on watchtower documents.

you folks should take a couple minutes and read the article.

her quote was that lev.5:1 required a witness to a crime to report the crime to police.

Unstuck

I'll check it out now - thanks for the tip Bill!

Can't wait to watch the A&E episode down here in Aus. It's not yet available on the A&E website.........

I'm gunna get popcorn on the way home tonight!!

16

Random Musing of an ex-JW between a rock and a hard place.

by StarTrekAngel in

many of you may recall pass postings of mine where i mentioned my plans of moving away from my current neighborhood.

mainly because my office got moved and now my commute is about one hour each way.

my employer is pretty flexible so showing up on time, for now, is not an issue.

I haven't read all the responses - but your story resonates with me on several levels. I am the sole-carer of my father (a 2nd gen witness) AND I commute three hours a day to work. Well, three hours a day is a good day - city traffic being what it is, let's not talk about a bad day!

I spoke with my father just last night about my non-belief for the first time. I'm not D'fd or D'ad (actually I'd be very tempted to DA if it wasn't for my father).

Long story short - I'm very happy to care for my father. Thus far Stuck and I spend about $150-200 a week supporting him, with extra when necessity arises. Then there is all the time taking him to appointments, making those appointments, managing his finances etc etc. I don't care if we have different belief systems, he is my father and I'll look after him.

However, if he sees my non-belief as a problem, then he knows what he risks. I won't continue to support him (hey we'll save some money and time) - he's the one that will lose out, not me. I'm preparing myself mentally and emotionally for the day that will inevitably come where he will reject me because his religion tells him to. In one way it will be a relief but it won't be my choice, it will be his - I will make that perfectly clear.

I know this may sound callous but I'm sure discerning ones will pick up that there probably has been history and it isn't the best of relationships anyway - and you'd be right.

StarTrek - you sound like a wonderfully supportive husband (much like mine is) and you are agonising over a manipulative trick your MIL is using. What does your wife think? How does she feel? I agree with comments of others - this is actually her call. I've reconciled myself to a disintegrating relationship with my father but I won't be cajoled or coerced into going back, no matter what tactics are used (which I told him last night). Has your wife reconciled herself likewise? If your wife needs someone to talk to at all, please PM me. I got two good ears and can empathise.

Love to you and your wife

Unstuck

50

Receiving so much hate recently....

by stuckinarut2 in

jw
friends

well, as you all know, my wife (unstuck) and i are not df or da.. we just stopped attending several years back after my "apostate" online activity was found by a nosey employee of ours while she was working in our office (long story if anyone wants to know - it would have to be another thread).

we never met with any elders - no congregation judicial activity occurred (as we would never consent to do so anyway).

so our policy has been to be the same kind, loving, normal people we have always been.

Unstuck

G'day all and thanks again for your support.

And update in the vein of this thread - I had an interesting talk with my father last night. It was the first time that I had the courage to tell him a few things. He's older in years now and very-in, raised as a witness, knows nothing else and after several events, he clings to it as the only thing left to him.

I assured him that in all I said, I had no intention of shaking his faith or changing his beliefs - all I wanted to do was explain where I was at. He knew, because we had discussed it before, that I was extremely troubled over the organisation's handling of child sexual abuse. He asked if he could do some research - but of course, only researched from WT sources, which he told me about last night - and I couldn't help myself but tell him that I had already viewed what he had found and that it was unacceptable and no where near enough of what had to be done. That the policy really should be quite simple: you hear about abuse, go straight to the authorities. Anyway, this opened the conversation for the first time to other topics, we discussed the flood, 607 and the meaning of the word apostate. I told him that I don't believe anymore, that Stuck and I will never come back.

I know it broke his heart because I know the clap trap their told. He told me he was worried for me because we are so close to Armageddon. I told him that I was fine with that - totally fine. That if Jehovah brought Armageddon tomorrow and judged me for destruction, I'm ok with that. (That's because I don't believe any of it, and if it did happen, I wouldn't want to live in some jacked up, 1984-style, utopian madness, with a tyrant ruling over you! I didn't tell him that).

We changed the subject soon after to day-to-day nuts and bolts (I'm his carer). But I know that his mind is reeling from what we discussed. Me, on the other hand, am undisturbed and content with what I have said. I don't have anything to lose - even if dad shuns me, as I'm his carer, he is the one that loses big time, not me.

Anyway, thought I'd share as things are fairly interesting at the moment!

50

Receiving so much hate recently....

by stuckinarut2 in

jw
friends

well, as you all know, my wife (unstuck) and i are not df or da.. we just stopped attending several years back after my "apostate" online activity was found by a nosey employee of ours while she was working in our office (long story if anyone wants to know - it would have to be another thread).

we never met with any elders - no congregation judicial activity occurred (as we would never consent to do so anyway).

so our policy has been to be the same kind, loving, normal people we have always been.

Unstuck

I wouldn't send texts or emails unless you are prepared for a bad/no response and are ok with that. Why put yourself through that?

Mentalclarity - you are so right! When Stuck sees JWs, he goes out of his way to show kindness and be the same person that he always was in the past. I think he is trying to prove that he has not changed - that he is kind and thoughtful still.

Except, the real truth is, WE HAVE CHANGED! We are no longer trapped in a cult, we no longer believe JW doctrine, we have freed ourselves of all of that. While I get the point of Stuck's behaviour and what some have posted here - that kindness heaps coals on their head and yes, I agree Pale Emp, it is cognitive dissonance that has got them all hot under the collar (and I think they're frustrated because they don't have enough on us to take any definitive action so that just adds to their anger) I have to ask - what is the point?

Why act like we haven't changed? We have! Why act like we don't know what they've said and what they think about us? We do! (Ok - we don't know exactly what they've said but I think all of us can guess and be pretty much accurate!) Why should that bother us now? We have fabulous new friends and so much support and we are so very lucky to have each other and believe me, we talk non-stop at home about all sorts of stuff, not just which JWs are shunning us, but what can we do to help others in the exJW community? What new podcast or thought or concept have we just come across that we can share with each other?

Stuck - from me, let's not let these people upset us. They honestly aren't worth it. We ARE better than them, we behave better than them - but we don't need to show them that. They clearly don't appreciate it and it's just wasted effort. We just need to keep proving that we are better, and keep getting better, to ourselves. Let's focus our energies on helping others - we have so much to give!
Everyone else - I know moving out of the area would help tremendously. We've been in the area for 20 years and for Stuck it's harder than it is for me. I work in a totally different area so I'm not as exposed as he is. I'm torn between knowing that moving would help and not wanting to put ourselves through so much change just because a few culty people don't like that we are around. Who are they to make us feel like that? Who are they to make us go running somewhere else? Practically, it would be very difficult to move and would cost resources that we don't have. In the meantime, we need to cope with the situation as best as we can. My way is to not invite situations where I come into contact with them. If it happens, like it did at the dentist the other day (which actually went ok - I wasn't shunned, which surprised me) then I will be the best version of me that I can be - but I'm not going to go looking for them. I can't be stuffed!!
Thank you everyone for your support. It was all of you that got Stuck through the years that I wasn't awake. I didn't know that he had posted the events of the last few days - so logging on today during my lunch break and seeing all of your words of encouragement and support has really made my day!
Love and light to you all - mwah mwah!!
Unstuck

39

Major Article in Today's Philadelphia Inquirer on JW Child Abuse

by Room 215 in

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/jehovahs-witnesses-sexual-abuse-children-beliefs-rules.html.

Unstuck

Wow - thank you so much for posting this. Recently, I had a discussion with my still-in father who seemed to think, rather naively and ignorantly, that child abuse among JWs was just an isolated incidence in Australia, care of the ARC shedding light on it. I told him to research it - that it was a worldwide epidemic. And that WT policies were largely to blame. I'm going to use this article next time I see him - it's brilliantly written and well-researched.

I also told him that I fail to understand why it is necessary for Satan's organisation to have to correct God's organisation over a matter of crime - shouldn't they be showing the rest of the world the way if they truly do represent God? Mmmm, that went down well. Not that I believe in either entity anymore, but my father does and I'd like to see him THINK rather than tow the party line. I will probably not be successful but at least he cannot argue one point I am trying to make - that my morality is higher than the organisations, as I will not tolerate or excuse criminal activity and I won't tolerate it in an organisation either when I become aware that a blind eye is being turned to it.

I'm glad to see the increase in media material on this issue. Even in the short time I've been awake, I've seen it increase. I hope it gives some comfort to survivors that more and more people are paying attention - a day of reckoning has to be coming for WT.

33

Do you miss that initial "high" ??

by stuckinarut2 in

do you remember the first time you found out "the truth about the truth"?.

yes, it was confronting, shocking and life altering.

yes it was hard to deal with.. but, along with that, many have said that they experienced a sense of thrill, euphoria, or joy when realising the facts about the religion that held us captive mentally and physically for so long.. it was liberating to learn some of the controversial teachings etc.

Unstuck

Like others above have commented, I was incandescently outraged and furious at the lies when I first woke up. That took a long time to settle down and I can still whip it up if I focus on it, the lost opportunities and potential, the damage to my view of myself and others, the decisions that I would make so differently now.....

But.....

There was this really odd feeling of jubilation and liberation of first learning that you no longer have to chain yourself to an organisation and adhere to what it tells you to do - that you can decide for yourself! And for the first time you analyse what you really think, without guilt or fear or obligation (got them a different way around but you know what I mean) and I think I will always be constantly reevaluating what my beliefs are, testing for inconsistencies and contradictions. That buzz, or high, I think I will always experience - just being free to be me, it's a wonderful thing!

Love & light to you all,

Unstuck

15

It Seems Some People Don't Listen

by Wasanelder Once in

my dad's phone rings.

its a secretary from his dermatologists office.. her:.

"just calling for "mr. wasa sr." to remind him his appointment is next wednesday at 2pm.".

Unstuck

Oh dear Wasa - that's terrible!

I'm in the healthcare industry (and scratchme - I do care! but I've come across a few colleagues that are just dragons so I know what you mean). I'd be having stern words with that secretary if she was one of mine!

Not so much a not listening story but a funny terminology story, that's kinda a bit related......

ME: How can I help you?

CALLER: I need to make an appointment. I've had an autopsy.

ME: (hiding the snort) Oh! I think you mean biopsy?

CALLER: Yes, that's right, an autopsy.

I just made the appointment and didn't bother correctly the old dear. She really thought the right word was autopsy!!

Still makes me laugh....hope it gives you a giggle too.

31

Oh this stoopid shunning thing!!

by Unstuck in

warning - vent ahead....... so, my father (still very much in jw but who has at least had the decency to still keep in contact with me and hubby and to show interest in why we aren't attending and respect where we are at) is in intensive care at a local hospital and is intubated and sedated with some serious health issues.

i'm next of kin so i get all the phone calls from the hospital.. so, the rest of the "family" has cut me off because we are inactive and because the ever-active jw gossip grapevine has rumoured with a sibilant slithy hissy voice: "apossstassssy" is the cause of our inactivity.. whatever.. but now i've had to contact said "family" with the news about my father and what is going on....... so, dad's sisters answer my calls and manage to act and conduct themselves with a degree of decorum.. my sister on the other hand - well, she doesn't deign to answer my calls and texts for most of the day.

i push the issue tonight and insist on speaking to her when my brother-in-law answers the call.

Unstuck

Hi All - UPDATE TIME!

So Dad is actually doing quite well. He's home now about eight weeks, I've managed to get a home care package set up and he has carers coming Monday to Friday. I'm taking him to doctor's appointments, have taken over managing his finances and am supporting him financially to the value of about $150/wk. I tell you this not to "blow my own trumpet" but to give you context to what has happened this week. (Although I know that here is a safe place to sing my praises if I want to!!) He's ok (kinda) with my, shall we call it "inactivity"? He doesn't know I don't believe anymore and given the complex circumstances it is probably better that way, for now.

Anyhoo - Dad agreed with my plan to get Power of Attorney and Enduring Guardianship and we went to a local lawyer to get it organised. Dad and I decided to make my sister alternate (not co-joint!) attorney and guardian if something were to happen to me. We felt that this would include her and that if she didn't want to be included, well then, we would just proceed without her. So we executed the documents three weeks ago and our lawyer sends them off to my sister to get her to sign them - she lives about 1,700kms away.

This Monday I contact the lawyer to find out how we are going with the docs. Surprise, surprise - they've not had a response. So they contact her - she doesn't answer the call, they leave a voicemail. 30 minutes later they receive an email from her and they forward it to me - enjoy this little lovely item (which I've de-identified):

"Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to your above client and note receipt of documentation in relation to 'Power of Attorney & Appointment of Enduring Guardian'.

As this matter was never fully discussed with both me and my husband in any real detail by either "Dad's name" ( and never once discussed with us by "my name"), we are unable at this point to sign the papers. We are also seeking legal advice in relation to this and have been advised that due to "dad" being released from hospital only a week before instructing your firm about the appointment of an Enduring Guardian, and also that he is on regular pain medication, that this appointment would be invalid in Court due to these circumstances. I will have our legal representation draft a letter of reply regarding our concerns about this appointment and my apparent substitute appointment.

I also instruct that any future contact with both myself or my husband, should be conducted via email for legal purposes so we can place all correspondence on file.

Yours faithfully,"

So there you have it. Now we have to pay more legal fees because my sister wants to fight a fight that doesn't actually exist!

Dad took the news quite well. He is very grateful for the help we are providing and he feels that my sister is not well to be so spiteful.

I'm doing ok with it all - I actually think it is funny becuase it is so stupid and my sister is going to end up looking like the fool just cos she has it in for me. It's sad really......

Love and light to all,

Mwah - Unstuck

11

Sufjan Stevens Watchtower Collage video

by scotsman in

i think many of us will recognise where sufjan’s got his clippings from.

https://youtu.be/22qkbw_c_ym.

.

Unstuck

Ha ha Fisherman - it's called culture and he has an amazing voice. He's not for everyone, I grant you - but I have a broad musical library and like to expand my horizons.....

And if I hadn't seen him I wouldn't know that he shares something in common with all born-in JWs, being raised as he was. He broke away from it - so he can't be all that bad!

11

Sufjan Stevens Watchtower Collage video

by scotsman in

i think many of us will recognise where sufjan’s got his clippings from.

https://youtu.be/22qkbw_c_ym.

.

Unstuck

This is very interesting - thanks for sharing scotsman. Hubby and I saw Sufjan in concert a few years back and he shared that he was raised in a fundamentalist Bible-belt group (from what I remember he told us that evening). His parents sounded positively loopy.

I'm curious as to his inspiration for this clip. There will be more behind it......he doesn't strike me as a gullible type and his songs are usually loaded with meaning.