I got the new Stafford book yesterday, and spent two hours running thru it, just getting an overview. And Greg Stafford's book is a must, an incredibly "good book". I hope everyone here gets it and reads it, and takes it for what it is - an honest study, research, where the theology, the Bible-based teachings are held in high esteem, and the organizational, man-made practices, the legalism of the Society, is critizised and exposed. I do not know how to put, but the book really spoke to my heart, really was what I have been waiting for, really was just what have been my thoughts for some years, the need to separate the theology of the Witnesses which is based on and follows the Bible, from the chronology speculations, the man-made legalism and restrictions etc.
Stafford has delivered the goods. Regretfully to some, he also partly critizes Franz's books, where they fall short, and that is not in the areas of the Society workings, but in the areas of theology.
Stafford has placed himself in a difficult position, much like Gorbachow's in the days of the Soviet Union. You know, the communists hated him because he had destroyed their good, old system - and the liberals and democrats hated him because his reforms did not go far enough according to their wishes. So Stafford so sharply critizises the Society, that he surely in their eyes now must be an "apostate" (not towards the Bible, but towards "God's Organization on earth") - but on the other hand the same "apostates" will critizise him, because he upholds that the Witnesses' theology when it comes to trinity, soul and a lot of other things, is basically correct, and also in that he partly critizises "apostate icons" as Penton and Franz. He is a man in the middle, and they never have easy days in our world.
Again, read it - it is a must, and I hope it will be read and discussed on this site, and treated with the respect it deserves. Stafford is a scholar and never takes lightly on things, and should not be shrugged off with three lines by self-appointed "scholars" and universal experts .............
TheOldHippie
JoinedPosts by TheOldHippie
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Stafford's "Three Dissertations" arrived
by TheOldHippie ini got the new stafford book yesterday, and spent two hours running thru it, just getting an overview.
and greg stafford's book is a must, an incredibly "good book".
i hope everyone here gets it and reads it, and takes it for what it is - an honest study, research, where the theology, the bible-based teachings are held in high esteem, and the organizational, man-made practices, the legalism of the society, is critizised and exposed.
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TheOldHippie
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Dreaded Ministry School Speakers!
by TR ini'm sure every hall has or had a "student" or speaker that they just dreaded to listen to.
wether it was poor reading and pronunciation, or repetitive words, there are those grueling speakers that are murder to listen to.
and they never got better.. in one hall i went to, this bro, actually a friend of mine, had the speach mannerism "you know".
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TheOldHippie
Well, was it not nice that these people TRIED, that they had the opportunity, that there was room also for those not being so elegant and well-educated as you are, Oh! Most Enlightened One?
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Would a Le Pen Presidency Favor WT in France ?
by Explorer inwould a le pen victory for the french presidency result in a favorable turn arround situation for the wt in france ?
he does not even support france being part of the eu, and has spoken out in favor of stepping out it if becoming president.
nationalism is starting to grow back not only in france but other european nations as well, with partisans for a no to the eu.. would a france in the hands of a nationalist such as le pen would be more tolerant to the wt, reversing jacques chirac's actual version of "freedom of cult" in france.
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TheOldHippie
Le Pen would be even worse that Chirac towards the Witnesses. But then, there has always been something different in the French mentality towards the Witnesses - and towards everything else not quite mainstream - than in most other European countries. Remember the Watchtower magazine was banned in France till around 1975-76.
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I BOUGHT SOME BOOKS
by Lady Lee inhubby and i went to a used book fair.
i love these things.
they are such a great place to find some books for my library.. well blow me over.
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TheOldHippie
Hello, Lady Lee:
The "Reprints" are made by the Dawn Bible Students, and as such have no commercial value - if they had been originals, you can look at eBay.com and see you would have been able to sell them for 50-60-70 or more $ a piece. I have had the reprints from Dawn, untill I have been able to replace them with "The Real Thing", and as far as I have been able to see, and taken the reverence the Dawn Bible Students have towards the Pastor, they have not been "doctored". -
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NEW LIGHT!!!!!!!!! on the 70 year prophesy!!!!!!!!
by TheApostleAK inthis is in the new isaiah book volume 1, page 253.. ----------------------------------------------------------------.
21 isaiah goes on to prophesy: (quotes isa 23:15a) following the destruction of the mainland city by the babylonians, the island city of tyre will "be forgotten".
true to the prophecy, for the duration of "one king" - the babylonian empire - the island city of tyre will not be an important financial power.
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TheOldHippie
....... although your discovery perhaps should not merit eight or so exclamation marks, as the book is two years old ....... perhaps ittells a bit about your eagerness to read .... :-)
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Slight slip of the tongue at yesterday's meeting
by TheOldHippie inconcluding remarks after the watchtower study, by the study conductor,.
"therefore, we all really appreciate the happiness and security we can enjoy within jehovah's united nation .... errrrhhh - sorry, i mean jehovah's united organization!
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TheOldHippie
Concluding remarks after the Watchtower study, by the study conductor,
"Therefore, we all really appreciate the happiness and security we can enjoy within Jehovah's united nation .... errrrhhh - sorry, I mean Jehovah's united organization!" -
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Need help with Watchtower quotes from the Guardian
by jerome indoes anybody have a list of quotes where the watchtower has quoted from the guardian news paper?.
i really dont need any jws that i show info about the un scandal to ask me if the guardian is an apostate newspaper.. so can anyone help with watchtower quotes mentioning the guardian.. some info on the guardian would also help since i dont know much about it.. thanks .
jerome
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TheOldHippie
But please keep in mind there are at least two "Guardians" - The Guardian and Manchester Guardian, and you also quote from the Guardian Weekly as well as from an Italian Guardian.
"An apostate newspaper"? I never thought there were that many former Witnesses that they were capable of issuing a daily newspaper of worldwide interest and size .............. -
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I, personally, loved this quote.
by apostate man inhttp://www.millennia.co.za/worldwatch/watchtower.htm .
found at this thread.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7385&site=3.
"worldwatch" on jw's...good stuff here started by sf.. after the long thread by jerome, this was interesting to see.. .
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TheOldHippie
And if you read the articles by BeDuhn and others, you will also see how these opinions are based on the theological thought and ideas of those making them, and NOT on neutral philological science. They are clear examples on how the theological background of the writers blinds their ability to see translation possibilities.
Not to state that it is completely the other way around, but just to tell us all that one must separate what is fact and what one wishes to be fact, as those frequently are two different things. -
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What is the most unBiblical teaching of the JWs?
by jerome init has been said that the jws hold to many beliefs that are unnsupported scripturally and inforce many 'unwritten' rules which they refer to as 'principles'.. i would like to start off the thread with what i think is the most important unbiblical teaching that they need to promote inorder to exist.. the watchtower teaches that "a prophet is able to make mistakes while he is speaking for god and still be considered as true.
mind you that these are not slips of the tounge but doctrines and predictions that have been promoted for years and have only been modified only after the watchtower had no choice but to change them.. this in my opinion is the most unscriptural teaching that the watchtower promotes.
if it werent for this teaching then the watchtower would most definately have to be marked as a false prophet!
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TheOldHippie
Hi, Jerome; you stated that
*The Watchtower teaches that "a prophet is able to make mistakes while he is speaking for God and still be considered as true. "*
and you put the sentence in quotation marks to show that it was a quote from a publication. However, you forgot to tell where you found the quote. Please tell me where they wrote that.
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SOMETHING BIG IS GOING TO HAPPEN APRIL 19-20
by new boy inthe stars are in alignment.. the time is right.. this weekend will change the world.. i just love to make prophecys, it reminds me of someone i know!.
"failure to respond to the direction of the organization indicates a rejection of divine rulership"---[2/15/1976,p.124].
"jehovah's witness are not infallible or inspired prophets."[5/15/1976,p.297].
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TheOldHippie
Only problem is, that when it's the 19th in one part of the world, it's already the 20th in another part of it .........
As someone said, "The world cannot go under today, because in the other part of the world, it is already tomorrow ......"
So what date are us Europeans to look out for?