Excuse me, but what is "new" here? Your quote "millions now living today will never die" has been stated ever since the days of the 7th messenger himself, back in the 80s - and then I am not thinking about 1980s, but 1880s ............
TheOldHippie
JoinedPosts by TheOldHippie
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new wt prophecy
by johnny cip ini have not heard anyone talk about the new wt prophecy.
they said that millions now living today will never die.
this was on the back page of a wt in 2000 or 2001.. i had a lot of fun with jws with that one.
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An old man's childish small-scale rebellion
by TheOldHippie ini was a socialist / communist and a hippie before turning a witness, always looking out for chances to disrupt the harmony and tranquility, for putting sand in the machinery of the authorities.
was a "liberal" elder for 24 years, always thinking people's intentions and attempts were the main thing, not looking for faults or shortcomings.
but it always amused me when i could tell the co-elders they had handled things not in accordance with procedures, as i was very good at remembering things and loved it when i was able to point to incorrect dealings from the side of the "hardliners".. anyway, i resigned as an elder after 24 years half a year ago, in protest, after having written many and long letters and made sure my action was read and received by many; the issue was the extent of one's contact with disfellowshipped children, where i was not in agreement with official policy.
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TheOldHippie
Again, thanks for all the kind words. I truly appreciate it!
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An old man's childish small-scale rebellion
by TheOldHippie ini was a socialist / communist and a hippie before turning a witness, always looking out for chances to disrupt the harmony and tranquility, for putting sand in the machinery of the authorities.
was a "liberal" elder for 24 years, always thinking people's intentions and attempts were the main thing, not looking for faults or shortcomings.
but it always amused me when i could tell the co-elders they had handled things not in accordance with procedures, as i was very good at remembering things and loved it when i was able to point to incorrect dealings from the side of the "hardliners".. anyway, i resigned as an elder after 24 years half a year ago, in protest, after having written many and long letters and made sure my action was read and received by many; the issue was the extent of one's contact with disfellowshipped children, where i was not in agreement with official policy.
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TheOldHippie
Larc and Farkel: Thank you for your kind words - I am really very glad and encouraged that you two responded that quickly. I have also had the firm belief that no matter how strongly we argued against each other, there was sincerety in the discussions and not prejudice, and that one was quick to defend against empty arguments etc which were aimed at the other one.
Thanks again, I appreciate you two indeed!
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An old man's childish small-scale rebellion
by TheOldHippie ini was a socialist / communist and a hippie before turning a witness, always looking out for chances to disrupt the harmony and tranquility, for putting sand in the machinery of the authorities.
was a "liberal" elder for 24 years, always thinking people's intentions and attempts were the main thing, not looking for faults or shortcomings.
but it always amused me when i could tell the co-elders they had handled things not in accordance with procedures, as i was very good at remembering things and loved it when i was able to point to incorrect dealings from the side of the "hardliners".. anyway, i resigned as an elder after 24 years half a year ago, in protest, after having written many and long letters and made sure my action was read and received by many; the issue was the extent of one's contact with disfellowshipped children, where i was not in agreement with official policy.
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TheOldHippie
I was a Socialist / Communist and a hippie before turning a Witness, always looking out for chances to disrupt the harmony and tranquility, for putting sand in the machinery of the authorities. Was a "liberal" elder for 24 years, always thinking people's intentions and attempts were the main thing, not looking for faults or shortcomings. But it always amused me when I could tell the co-elders they had handled things not in accordance with procedures, as I was very good at remembering things and loved it when I was able to point to incorrect dealings from the side of the "hardliners".
Anyway, I resigned as an elder after 24 years half a year ago, in protest, after having written many and long letters and made sure my action was read and received by many; the issue was the extent of one's contact with disfellowshipped children, where I was not in agreement with official policy. The circuit overseer made my kettle boil over, when he asked me what I would do if another child of mine was disfellowshipped sometime in the future, if I would then comply with official policy? He gave me two weeks to ponder. The question and ultimatum was so surprising that one of the other elders even denied the circuit overseer ever said it ....... Two of the other elders said they did not know how to answer that one, either, and that they probably would have sided with me. Left two hardliners then to side with the circuit overseer. That other elders had done the same as I had, in other congregations, did not impress the overseer at all. His line was the correct one, he was the one who was in step, all the others were not.
OK, back to the point I am trying to make after these side-tours. In my childish manner, I have started taking my Christian freedom back. I have no arguments with the organization when it comes to theology, as I have stated earlier, and I respect them / it for the tremendous job done in bringing out worldwide valuable truths as to the soul, hell, Name of God, nature or realtionship between God and Christ (trinity etc.) - it is the authority, the legalism, the structure, the points where the Biblical basis is lacking or unclear, and the chronological speculations I disagree with.
So what does an old, previously anti-authoritarian hippie go about doing this? In my small, childish manner,
- I have started to grow a nice moustache;
- I have started not wearing a jacket at the meetings when I have no ministry school talks etc. to deliver;
- I and my family leave the service meeting before talks with the contents of which we disagree, such as the one on how to treat disfellowshipped family members lately;
- we leave the meeting when the circuit overseer visit us (the one of whom I wrote above) and he is about to start delivering his speech;
- we come to the meeting after the same circuit overseer has given the public speech on Sunday, stay at the Watchtower study and then leave again when he is to give his concluding speech;
- we never reply to the paragraphs / questions where we disagree with the contents;
- when I give school talks on topics such as why we have changed beliefs at times, I use a couple of minutes to deal with the Pyramids, vaccinations etc., to show what was once taught;
- when someone asks for literature of which there are revisions, I ask them which issue they want, the one with the people of Sodom being resurrected or the one where ethey are not, the one with spanking children or the one with not etc.
It's nothing, it's not a revolution, but then I don't want a revolution, I just want plain decency, and to be able to make use of my conscience and freedom. AND I DO IT! You may critizise me for remaning within, but I stay because I choose to, because it is my firm belief - but I make use of my freedom at the same time. It's great fun - and it works so far.
I'm taking my freedom back.
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GOVERNING BODY
by Blueblades inhi unclepenn1, here's the list of the governing body members.john barr(1913)--carey barber(1905)--milton henschel(1920)--samuel herd(19350)--theodore jaracz(1923) steve lett(1949)--gerrit losch (1941) guy pierce(1934)--albert schroeder(1911)--david splane (1944) daniel sydlik (1919).
the dates are when they were born.
karl klein,and lyman swingle both died this year.im not sure about john barr or carey barber,as to whether they died also.i hope this helps.
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TheOldHippie
Neither Barr nor Barber are dead.
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My Disfellowshipping
by silentlambs inmy disfellowshipping
as with anyone associated with jehovahs witnesses the worst possible news anyone can have is being df.
it means a loss of everyone and everything you have known all your life.
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TheOldHippie
I don't have many comments, brother. I have communicated a bit with you thru e-mails previously and offered my assistance, and I have always been, am, and will be, one of the "liberal brothers" of whom you are speaking. While an elder, I was a liberal elder, and I continue along that path now. I am not a "liberal" when it comes to theology (soul, trinity, hell etc.), but am one when it comes to chronological speculations and especially when it comes to these matters with which we are dealing now, namely legalism, authority, how different matters are handled, the many puffed-up elders and COs etc. If they could only read Greg Stafford's book and see what he points at; he feels as I do, that we love these people, our brothers, care for them, wish nothing more than the very best for the entire brotherhood, that we hold the organization in extremely high esteem for what it has done to bring out Bible truths, honouring God's name and the idetity of Christ etc. - but that we are deeply saddened and concerned about what is now going on. Those of uf who are liberals and keep on inside, wish no harm to anyone, no revolution, just that ordinary decency should be the standards when people are dealing with each other, just that one should allow each and everyone the right to follow his or her conscience in certain matters. I stepped down as an elder after a couple of years of constant debates because we invited our disfellowshipped daughter to visit us, had her stay with us for periods, visited her and her boy-friend who later became her husband, took care of her when she had nervous breakdowns, tookspecial care of her after she had asked for reinstatement but had not yet been reinstated - and in this period they continued to call her "cancer in the family", although she had asked for reinstatement. She was cancer the day before she was reinstated, because she was even that day technically disfellowshipped. But the next day, after the reinstatement, everything was OK. I don't see how one can regard a repentant believer as cancer the day before the reinstatement is done. Anyway, I resigned as a protest, a loud and vocal one sent to many. I just write this to tell you that although out paths are different, they in principle have much in common.
Some of us keep quiet and continue; we keep our heads down and outwardly comply to much, but there are paragraphs in the Watchtower study or in KM inserts which we never comment on or reply to when questions are asked, never in public, never to others. To close friends yes, but we keep quiet to others.
Some of us continue. And we wait. And wait. We have patience. Our happiness, our zeal is gone, broken by harsh procedures by an organization which looks not at people but at hours used. But we see that beneath that are great Bible truths which are so prescious to us that we can endure much to be able to stick to them.
So we continue. And we wait. because we know that our hour is coming, and it is coming perhaps sooner than one might expect.
That's why I continue, and wait.
I send you my love, brother Bowen; I hate what has happened, and I send you my love.
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NWT informative Pamphlet FYI
by Adonai438 intheir kingdom interlinear translation of the greek scriptures declares:
11. john 1 :1 [''god" as "a god" in order to.
gruss comments:
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TheOldHippie
Far too short and over-simplified, the Adonai message or pamphlet. You don't make away with a translation of a verse in a couple of lines or a couple of pages. One could cite authorities who go the other way, one could cite BeDuhn and Stafford and lots of others, and then we could have the usual merry-go-roung with hitting each other in the head. Many of the critics are theologiand, and as such have their pre-determined opinions as to how a verse should be translated, what is appropriate etc. Boiling the comments down to what the Greek scholars say and leaving out the theological aspects, gives quite another picture.
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August KM Insert RE: Disfellowshipping???
by back2dafront incan anyone verify that the insert in the august km states/reiterates one can be disfellowshipped for speaking to a family member?
i read this through a jahchristian newsletter i received and want to verify that it is actually true.
jason.
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TheOldHippie
So as you can see, it is NOT true ...............
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Could a person get disfellowshipped for. . .
by StinkyPantz inallowing their 23 year old child to live at home even though this child makes enough money to support themselves and the parent doesn't need their financial support?.
i ask because my former best friend (who betrayed me to the elders) still lives with her mom.
she moved in a month before she got df'd even though her mom knew she was close to getting df'd.
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TheOldHippie
One isn't df'ed; councelled etc. yes, but nothin' more. I know. because we have done so. I was asked to consider if I thought I could continue as an elder, and after half a year and to and from and yes and no and finally having had enough of the pharisees, I chose to resign as an elder, but have unofficial chores today as a kind of ms. Nothin' else has happened, but I guess that is because I made myself very vocal, and thru 8-10 different letters to the branch, which I copied to 5-6 different co's and a couple of do's I know, as well a translation to the hq and not the least long and pointed meetings, and so the Biblical reasons and also literature quotes for my acting as I did were safe and clear and well-founded, so I guess they all got a bit scared of this loudmouth and allowed him to more or less do as he pleased ........
You can achieve much, if you play it correctly, that's what I always say, although some choose to laugh at that on this board.
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For JW's...Where in the Bible does it say...
by Wolfgirl in...that men are not allowed to grow beards?.
i don't know if this is true where you live, but where i used to live, it was against "policy" for brothers to have beards.
any man who did have one was looked down upon.
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TheOldHippie
I haven't found a place in the Bible where it says men are not to have beards, but what is the problem? Over here, there are wuite a few brothers, and including ministerial servants and elders, who have beards, and many more who have moustaches. In Latin and Turk countries, it is a "must" for a man to have moustaches. Do you mean that in the USA, men are not "allowed" to have beards?