thinker

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Posts by thinker

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  20

  Creed--Collective Soul--Sixpence

  by joel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  whassup!.

  i thought i would toss out a few group names with a distinctive spiritual bent to their lyrics...and see what yall thought of them.. creed is big right now...lyrics are...well...you tell me.. same with sixpence none the richer...collective soul...kendall payne(she does that theme song for the show popular)...and others.. there are a number of popular, secular groups with a noticable spiritual message to their lyrics.. any thoughts!?.

  pax(peace) to ya my ifriends,.

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  thinker

  This is Thinkers Wife
  Noticing a definite spiritual trend in music. Sarah McLachlan has some very interesting lyrics. Path did you know she has a song called "The Path of Thorns"? Suggestions on specific titles of recommended CD's would be appreciated.
  TW
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  26

  GB dies???

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  posted by ernest [ernest] on january 03, 2001 at 14:44:39 {l6c8f8mpkkj.cgracl3y0abnmpk0su}: .

  dear friends, .

  1/3/01 it was announced at morning worship today that brother karl klein, .

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  thinker

  JT and Larc,
  My husband and I totally agree. Why debate over issues that are so open to opinion and interpretation. My arguing days are over.
  Already wasted and spent way too much time on it for almost forty years.
  I do know what you mean about these conversations dredging up dormant feelings though Larc. Sometimes I read posts and just cry and cry. My husband asks me why I am crying and sometimes I don't even know.
  But it really is helping to get things off my chest.
  Thinkers Wife
  JT I really love your insight. It is so nice to know I am not crazy.
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  51

  Do you still attend meetings?

  by Sassenach in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm wondering if you still attend meetings?

  do you hold out hope for the watchtower organization?

  if you've left entirely, have you found another form of worship?

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  thinker

  Sass,
  I stopped going to the meeting two years ago in July. I felt like Neyank. I just felt so darned hypocritcal. By then I had some serious doubts. The congregation I was going to then was so kind unlike the one before who had mistreated me so badly. But being honest with myself I realized the only reason I was going was for a few of the people. I also realized that the only reason I was staying in was so I wouldn't lose my family. And that just wasn't good enough.
  After meeting my husband and doing a lot of talking and crying, he said one thing that really hit home. He said "You are a very honest person. When are you going to start being who you really are?" It took me a few weeks after that to make up my mind. It had already been almost a year since I had been at any meetings.
  Nothing has really changed with my family, other than the expressed attitudes on other threads. I still can't be really honest with them about my feelings. They think I left because of perceived badness on my part. How do you tell them, I left because I don't believe it is the truth? They don't want to hear that. So for now I allow them their disillusionment. Maybe someday they will really want to know who I am.
  My husband I definitely do not feel the need for any organized religion. I don't think any one of them has the total "truth". For the most part I think organized religion fills an emotional need for some people. I too, have been surprised by so many of the witnesses moving on to another form of control. I guess some have needs that we don't.
  I believe we can be very content and fulfilled within ourselves and what we make of our lives.
  My husband and I both get bored with long argumentative discussions on scriptural threads. What is the point? There are always opinions and interpretation. We all have a right to that. I don't think God is really interested in hair splitting though. I think living good lives and treating others properly is very important.
  I like Carmel have developed a belief system that works for me. It is a little unusual, but it works. You may also email my husband and I and we would be glad to share.
  Find what works in your heart and what truly makes you content.
  Thinkers Wife
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  14

  Mental Health

  by yeldell2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  to whom this may concern:.

  i suffer from chronic osteoarthritis and have had one hip replace-.

  ment surgery and am waiting a second next month.

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  thinker

  Patricia,
  I am so sorry I have not responded to your pain before this. It is one of those cases where you really want to but are not sure what to say.
  Just know that I am very sorry for all you have been through and are going through. Health is such a precious gift, and many times we don't appreciate it until we have lost it.
  I too subscribe to natural treatments if possible. RHW advised herbs as well as mommy's seem to be the ones that help through menopause. You may want to check that your diet is good too.
  Oatmeal has an amazing calming effect. Spinach also is helpful in many areas of health.
  Take care of yourself, and know that we are thinking about you.
  Many hugs and kisses to you.
  Thinkers Wife
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  27

  New here

  by Ziggy424 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all...am new to your great forum....got a sore back from shoveling all the new snow today and yesterday...:-) "smile" it makes them wonder....:-)

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  thinker

  Zazu,
  You drew a picture for me with the silent film actress, I could just see her.
  I have tried to be that fluttering type, but it is hard when you are five foot nine with red hair and a voluptuous body build. More like a mutated amazon woman.
  You just keep letting that little inner voice of yours keep screaming out in full cry!!! I for one look forward to it.
  This is Thinkers Wife
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  26

  GB dies???

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  posted by ernest [ernest] on january 03, 2001 at 14:44:39 {l6c8f8mpkkj.cgracl3y0abnmpk0su}: .

  dear friends, .

  1/3/01 it was announced at morning worship today that brother karl klein, .

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  thinker

  Welcome JT,
  I read your post with tears in my as. As someone who was married to an ex-bethelite, your posts had a ring of truth. As someone who was on the inside track sometimes and sometimes not hearing someone else describe it hurts me somewhere deep inside. It is just so sad.
  I hope my brother at the Farm will someday see these things, for I fear he is on the "fast track" too.
  Thank you for your honesty. It is a breath of fresh air. It adds validity to the feelings I have been having for years.
  Being raised around a lot of blacks in and out of the WT. I have to agree with you about the blacks and their feelings within the org.
  Keep posting.
  This is Thinkers Wife
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  57

  Pedophiles Among Us - (H20 post)

  by waiting in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  posted by silentlambs <mailto: [email protected]> [silentlambs] on december 29, 2000 at 18:32:18 {koz7jvonlur.eq9dlgnykxdsqhckmu}: .

  this policy is unethical and immoral in my opinion.

  however, i can no longer continue to serve the members of my church as i do not agree with a church policy that as a church elder i am required to enforce.

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  thinker

  Frenchy,
  I feel that was a very succinct description of what really exists in the organization and on a congregational level.
  I was molested more than once. Once within the org. and once out. My parents reported neither, no doubt at the elders advice. And even kept the one incident from me until a couple of years ago when I finally nailed my mother with it. She said "Your father and I thought you were too young to remember it". This is definitely JW'ese. I should have had counseling way back when. But of course that is frowned upon. When I finally got counseling of my own accord a few years back, the elders thought it necessary to warn me against it. Only one elder recognized its value. When their advice didn't work, I was called in again. Their reason? My counselor hated JW's, they thought it could have an effect on my faith.
  I am sure now, I am just a case in point.
  This is Thinkers Wife
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  99

  Who really is the FDS?!?!?!?!?

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey all, hope you're having a great year so far.. before witnet was closed down, there was an interesting discussion regarding the fds and their failed prophecies.

  i asked a question, but unfortunately there wasn't enought time to get everyone's view.. so i'll rephrase my posts, and wait to hear from y'all.. if we are so quick to say that the fds is a false prophet because of some failed prophecies (even tho they say they don't prophecy, we all know better) then how would you explain the bible book of jonah?.

  a faithful prophet, jonah, followed (after much trial and tribulation to himself) jehovah's command to declare destruction on the city of nineveh.

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  thinker

  (This is Thinkers Wife)
  I always questioned why only a select few of the annoited were chosen to teach whereas the rest were basically ignored until the Memorial. It just didn't add up. If the F&DS was the entire annoited class then why were only a few actively teaching the domestics?
  Path, I know personally a black C.O.
  TW
• 
  99

  Who really is the FDS?!?!?!?!?

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey all, hope you're having a great year so far.. before witnet was closed down, there was an interesting discussion regarding the fds and their failed prophecies.

  i asked a question, but unfortunately there wasn't enought time to get everyone's view.. so i'll rephrase my posts, and wait to hear from y'all.. if we are so quick to say that the fds is a false prophet because of some failed prophecies (even tho they say they don't prophecy, we all know better) then how would you explain the bible book of jonah?.

  a faithful prophet, jonah, followed (after much trial and tribulation to himself) jehovah's command to declare destruction on the city of nineveh.

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  thinker

  I was at a website just yesterday that addressed this issue. The following are quotes from that site. Notice how the definition of FDS changes again & again.
  AW 22/3/93
  "The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah's Witnesses has said: "We have not the gift of prophecy". Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Never in these instances, however, did they presume or originate predictions "in the name of Jehovah". Never did they say "These are the words of Jehovah".

  Compare that to the following statements:

  WT June 15, 64:
  "As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first century christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying. All of this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it."

  "The Nations shall know..." , 1971:
  There is an authentic prophetic class of Christians among us. Jehovah has raised up a genuine "prophet" within our generation. Regardless of how Christendom views or regards this group of anointed witnesses of Jehovah, the time must come, and that shortly, when those making up Christendom will know that really a "prophet" of Jehovah was among them."

  WT June 1, 82:
  "Today, a remnant of this 'faithful slave' is still alive on earth. They occupy a position similar to that of Paul...when that apostle said of the wonderful truths...:"It is to us God has revealed them through his spirit."

  Awake! 6/8/1986, p.9
  "God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God...Jehovah's Witnesses."

  WT, April 1, 92
  "This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning, and have been joined assisted in their work by hundreds of thousands of persons who have listened top their message with belief.

  WT 07/01/43 p. 204
  "Every organization requires specific instructions for all those who serve in it. In the past the Lord issued his "organization instructions" to his servants through his central agency or channel ... the apostle says, Jehovah speaks to us through his Son. (Heb. 1:1,2) The Son has returned as King; he has come to his temple. He has appointed his "faithful and wise servant", who is his visible
  MOUTHPIECE.
  The Lord breaks down our organization instructions further and makes them more practicable by further instructing us through his "faithful and wise servant". He says, 'Let us assign the field, the world, to special pioneers, regular pioneers and companies of Jehovah's witnesses in an orderly way, sufficient for everyone to thoroughly witness therein, and let us place on each one the responsibility of caring for the New World interests in these respective assignments." He says the requirements for special pioneers shall be 175 hours and 50 back-calls per month, which should develop into a reasonable number of studies; and for regular pioneers 150 hours and as many back-calls and studies as can be properly developed during that time. And for company publishers he says, "Let us make a quota of 60 hours and 12 back-calls and at least one study
  a week for each publisher." These directions come to us from the Lord through his established agency directing what is required of us. It is our duty to accept this additional instruction and obey it."

  WT 06/15/57 p. 370
  "Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people ... It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God ... "

  WT 07/15/60 p. 439
  "The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the "slave" class has served as God's sole collective channel of communication from heaven to earth for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth ... Thus organizationally the "discreet slave" class since 1919 has been channeling an ever-increasing flow of Biblical publications by the millions that contain the "waters of life" featuring Jehovah's will as emanating from God's throne in heaven."

  WT 10/01/67 p. 590
  "...Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it.

  WT 4/1/72 p.197
  "A third way of coming to know Jehovah God is through his representatives. In ancient times he sent prophets as his special messengers. While these men foretold things to come, they also served the people by telling them of God's will for them at that time. People today ... have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as lnternational Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses..."

  WT 11/1/31
  "The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. . . . Jehovah God is the great Teacher of his children. To be sure, the publication of these truths is put forth by imperfect men, and for this reason they are not absolutely perfect in form; but they are put forth in such form as reflects God's truth that he teaches his children."

  WT 06/15/57 pg. 370)
  "Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people ... It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God ... "

  WT 07/15/60 pg. 439
  "How is this divine will to be made known and brought to the attention of the worthy multitudes of men of good will toward Jehovah? ...The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the "slave" class has served as God's sole collective channel of communication from heaven to earth for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth ... Thus organizationally the "discreet slave" class since 1919 has been channeling an ever-increasing flow of Biblical publications by the millions that contain the "waters of life" featuring Jehovah's will as emanating from God's throne in heaven."

  WT 10/01/67 pg. 590
  "...Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it."

  AW 10/8/68
  "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world", even announcing a specific date...yet nothing happened. The end did not come. They were guilty of false prophecying.What was missing? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was guiding and using them."

  WT 01/10/67 p. 590
  "...Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it."

  WT 15/01/94, p. 16
  In the past, Jehovah ruled and revealed truths through individuals, such as prophets, kings and apostles. Jesus said that during his royal presence, he would identify a faithful body of followers, a 'faithful and discreet slave'. In 1919 this slave was identified as the remnant of anointed Christians. Since then, as represented by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, it has been the center of theocracy on earth.

  thinker
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  20

  shunning and family members

  by crittersitter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have 3 sisters still in the org.

  is it still called the "org"?

  2 of them maintain no contact, one because i'm an evil apostate, the other is two faced about it(nice on the phone 2x a year, but does not let anyone know about the contact) the 3rd is pretty cool about it, we e-mail alot and i call monthly( all live 1200 miles away).

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  thinker

  I have been wondering about the WT's stand on the internet and why they are warning against it. My first thought was the quick access to the actual history of the org. Next, the open discussions and "independent thinking" on forums such as this. Then, I wondered how the shunning would be enforced if you were online. Now, I'm beginning to wonder about the possibility of an outright revolt over some practices such as shunning. Suppose every witness online declared "As of Feb 1, 2001, we will no longer shun anyone."?

  The GB clearly has it hands full. Perhaps the recent reorganization at HQ reflects this?

  thinker