Hi waiting,
I've been here all along. Just not very "vocal" about it.
thinker
JoinedPosts by thinker
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My visit to WT official site
by larc inenglishman has a thread about the generation idea and the apostates - most interesting.
after reading this, it occured to me it would be interesting to go to the official watchtower internet site and use there search function on different words and see what they had to say.
here is what i found out.. first of all, they do not show complete articles.
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Shunning stopped, now what?
by thinker inone of my wife's friends (active jw) made contact a few months ago.
she's declared that she won't stop associating "no matter what they do to me".
i had written e-mails last year to this jw critical of shunning.
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thinker
One of my wife's friends (active JW) made contact a few months ago. She's declared that she won't stop associating "no matter what they do to me".
I had written e-mails last year to this JW critical of shunning. Now that she's stopped I find that I really don't care what else she wants to believe. There's lots I'd like to tell her about the WTBTS, but I think she'll find it all out in time. She's already asked about the child abuse issue. She got a clipping from a non-jw cousin about the lawsuit, so I think that without the isolation that the WT craves for it's members she'll soon be well informed and free.
To me the shunning and avoidance of non-jws is the main thing thats wrong with the WT. -
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Masonry????
by apostate man ini have been reading some things about free masonry and how some say russell was a mason.
i have been skeptical up to this point but i am now finding more information that says this may be true.. question: .
why in the world would an organization that teaches against idols and flags etc., use a pyramid at the grave of its founder????
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thinker
apostate man,
I've done alot of reasearch on this. At first I found favorable comments from Russell concerning the masons. He gave sermons at mason halls and called them "brothers". Later additions of Zion's Watchtower warn against joining organizations like the masons.
in my opinion he was not a mason, but was familiar with many of their rites because of his father being one.
As for the pyramid, the watchtower will use whatever is in fashion at a time in history to get people's attention. Recently a Awake was left at my door. It had articles about a sacred stonehedge-like site in Ireland and the magical properties of amber. These new-age ideas are popular now, so they use them to get their own message across.thinker
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My visit to WT official site
by larc inenglishman has a thread about the generation idea and the apostates - most interesting.
after reading this, it occured to me it would be interesting to go to the official watchtower internet site and use there search function on different words and see what they had to say.
here is what i found out.. first of all, they do not show complete articles.
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thinker
larc,
I searched watchtower.org for "1914".
Found this:
http://www.watchtower.org/library/lmn/article_11.htmEducation for Entering Paradise
Would you like to live in Paradise? If your answer is 'Yes,' you will be thrilled to know that when Jesus spoke of today's troubled system and "the sign" of its approaching destruction, he added, "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." Some, at least, of the generation that saw the "beginning of pangs of distress" in 1914 will live to see Paradise restored on earth. (Matthew 24:3-8, 34) However, it is a sad fact that most people today are on the broad road that leads to destruction. (Matthew 7:13, 14) There is little time left for them to change. How thankful you can be that Jehovah has provided warning in time! Because Jehovah wants you to have life, he will help you to take the right steps.—2 Peter 3:9; Ezekiel 18:23.Your urgent need now is accurate knowledge. (1 Timothy 2:4; John 17:3) Where can you get this? Can it be found in just any religion? Some people say all religions lead to the same goal, just as all paths on a mountain lead to the summit. How mistaken they are! In order to find the right path, mountaineers use maps, and they hire guides. Likewise, there is only the one religion of truth that will lead to everlasting life, and guidance is needed to find it.—Acts 8:26-31.
Seems the website is still promoting the pre-1995 generation idea.
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Just Wondeing
by orangefatcat ini was reading an interesting novel the other day, it had some religious overtones in the story and then something struck me right out of the blue (no notlightening)that the bible had several gospels that were written about the life of jesus and we know that many others scholars who lived at the time of christ that they wrote about him.
but then i thought to myself, did jesus ever write about himself on some manuscript paper or with a stylus and stone.
how do we know or not know if he ever had a kind of a diary and wrote about his own life.
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thinker
orangefatcat,
Interesting questions....did Jesus ever write about himself on some manuscript paper or with a stylus and stone.
I mean it seems to me that why would'nt he...Taken literally (rather than prophetically) many scriptures seem to point to "the end of the world" being expected in a few short years after Jesus's death ("this genereation" for example). If that was the case, there was no reason to publish anything.
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GOING DOWN IN THE ONRUSHING FLOOD?
by You Know inpresently developing trends in the world are like a slowly rising mountainous tsunami that threatens to drown jehovahs organization.
global warfare seems certain to erupt at the next spark of terrorism.
the financial system is being rocked with increasing tremors of volatility in advance of the onrushing wall of water.
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thinker
Prv12:17 He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
Prv14:5 A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Prv19:5 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.
Prv19:9 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.
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Spoke with a dub on ever changing doctrine...
by stocwach ini asked him how could it be the true religion with all the numerous doctrinal changes.
this is how he replied to me in an email:.
" another thing mentioned was the apostles (known as the governing body).
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thinker
stocwach,
I suggest that you discuss how the Watchtower lies to it's OWN MEMBERS. This is not "theocratic warfare" lies to outsiders, but lies to the R&F witnesses! Let your friend examine the following:Application No. 28626/95
by Khristiansko Sdruzhenie "Svideteli na Iehova"
(Christian Association Jehovah's Witnesses)
against BulgariaThe European Commission of Human Rights sitting in private on
3 July 1997,"The applicant association (Watchtower Society) was represented by MM. Alain Garay, Philippe
Goni and Michel de Guillenchmidt, avocats à la Cour, Paris, France, and
by Mr. Lioubomir Kioutchokov, founding member of the applicant
association.The Government submit, firstly, that the applicant association's
statute did not require a minimum age for membership and that children
have been participating in its religious activities without the consent
of their parents. Moreover, there have been occasions where teachers
adhering to the association have abused their position to preach in
school among minors. The Government state that the distribution to
children of forms for the refusal of blood transfusion and of other
religious materials without the consent of the parents is an unlawful
practice which infringes public health and the rights and freedoms of
others.The applicant association contends that the measures against it
are not necessary in a democratic society within the meaning of these
provisions. Thus, the association maintains that it does not pose a
threat as alleged by the authorities. As regards the alleged unlawful
activities of Jehovah's Witnesses with children the applicant
association submits that children cannot become members of the
association but only participate, together with their parents, in the
religious activities of the community. As regards a "pioneer card"
issued to a Ms. V., the applicant association explains that the card
was issued when Ms. V. was 16 years old and could assume some civil
obligations herself. Also, Ms. V.'s card prohibiting blood
transfusion aims at "informing the medical professionals [of the
parents' religious stand], and not at imposing on them a certain
medical practice."In respect of the refusal of blood transfusion, the applicant (Watchtower Society) association submits that while this is part of the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses, its acceptance depends on the personal choice
of the individual concerned. There are no religious sanctions for a
Jehovah's Witness who chooses to accept blood transfusion. Therefore,
the fact that the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is against
blood transfusion cannot amount to a threat to "public health", every
individual being free in his or her choice."http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/hudoc/
"Victory for human rights in Eastern Europe:
Christian religion sets legal precedent in Bulgaria
After years of arrests, beatings, and loss of property, Jehovah's Witnesses have regained legal recognition in Bulgaria. They are the first religion in the country to successfully appeal to an international body in order to regain legal recognition. Dozens of religions were banned in 1994.
This legal recognition, which was received Wednesday, October 7, 1998, represents an important victory for religious freedom in the country and throughout Eastern Europe, said Lubomir Kutchoukov, spokesperson for Jehovah's Witnesses in Bulgaria. "We are grateful that appeals to international standards of human rights have led to this reasonable and peaceful conclusion," he said. "All people of Bulgaria will benefit from this victory."
This important legal victory came after intervention from the European Commission of Human Rights of the Council of Europe. In July 1997, the Commission suggested that the government of Bulgaria enter into a friendly settlement with Jehovah's Witnesses. On March 8, 1998, the Commission accepted the terms of the settlement, which included the government's promise to grant legal recognition to Jehovah's Witnesses. As part of the settlement, Bulgaria also agreed to create a bill that will allow alternative civilian service for conscientious objectors. The terms of the agreement involved no change in the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Jehovah's Witnesses were first legally recognized in Bulgaria on July 17, 1991, shortly after the fall of communism. However, despite democratic changes in Bulgaria, restrictions on religion continued. Beginning in 1993, public defamation against "non-traditional" churches began, resulting in many human rights violations. In 1994, some 39 religions lost their legal status after the passage of a restrictive law on religion. Jehovah's Witnesses were subjected to a rash of police raids, beatings and arrests.
At the same time, "there has not been a single member of a 'sect' [judicially] charged for committing a crime motivated by religious convictions," stated a 1996 report by the Bulgarian Helsinki Commission and Human Rights Without Frontiers."October 8, 1998
http://www.jw-media.org/releases/981008a.htmHence a Christian who deliberately receives a blood transfusion and thus does not keep himself from blood will not prosper spiritually. According to the law of Moses, which set forth shadows of things to come, the receiver of a blood transfusion must be cut off from God's people by excommunication or disfellowshiping.(The Watchtower January 15, 1961, page 64*** )
Recognized by Our Conduct
Consistent with that understanding of matters, beginning in 1961 any who ignored the divine requirement, accepted blood transfusions, and manifested an unrepentant attitude were disfellowshipped from the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses." Proclaimers, 1993, page 183-4.------------------------
WHY did the Watchtower Society change its literature distribution program in 1990, eliminating set prices for literature items? JWs believe the Governing Body instituted a "simplified" arrangement. Few know the change really took place because Jimmy Swaggart lost his case in court. In a February 21, 1990 letter to congregations, the Society explained the new policy this way:
By adopting a method of literature distribution based completely on donation, Jehovah's people are able to greatly simplify our Bible education work and separate ourselves from those who commercialize religion.However, this is what really happened:
Early 1980 State of California informs Jimmy Swaggart Ministries that tax is due for religious books and tapes sold in the state since 1974. Swaggart eventually pays the tax--$183,000.00--but sues for a refund. The case begins moving toward the U.S. Supreme Court.
February, 1989 U.S. Supreme Court rules it is illegal for Texas (and 14 other states) to exempt religious books from sales tax. Some states had been taxing religious books all along.
Summer, 1989 WT Society gives away "free" books released at U.S. conventions. Witnesses are instructed to place donations in contribution boxes to cover the cost.
June 22, 1989 Watchtower Society, files amicus curiae ("friend of the court") brief with U.S. Supreme Court in Jimmy Swaggart case. Others filing similar briefs include National Council of Churches and Society for Krishna Consciousness.
January 17, 1990 U.S. Supreme Court rules against Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, declaring that the sales tax must be paid.
February 9, 1990 WT Society writes letter to congregations announcing that literature will no longer be sold at Kingdom Hall and no price will be set in door-to-door distribution.
February 25, 1990 February 9th letter from Society is read at Sunday meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses across the United States.
March 1, 1990 New policy of distributing literature without naming a price goes into effect.
The March 15, 1990, WATCHTOWER magazine and March 22nd AWAKE!--printed earlier--still say "25 cents (U.S.) a copy" and "$5.00 (U.S.) per year." The April 1, 1990, Watchtower no longer carries a price.
March 11, 1990 Announcement is made at Kingdom Halls in the U.S. that food will be available at no cost, on a freewill donation basis, at JW conventions.
----------------------------------------I read some of your literature regarding the early Bible Students. Here are the quotes that I found:
*** ka 209-10 11 "Here Is the Bridegroom!" ***
55 In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." In its chapter 11, entitled "The Count of Time," it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or Parousia. The millennium that was to be marked by the detaining of Satan the Devil enchained in the abyss and by the reign of the 144,000 joint heirs with Christ in heavenly glory was therefore yet in the future. What, then, about the parousia (presence) of Christ? Page 324 of the above book positively says: "The King’s presence or parousia began in 1914." Also, in the Watchtower issue of July 15, 1949 (page 215, paragraph 22), the statement is made: " . . . Messiah, the Son of man, came into Kingdom power A.D. 1914 and . . . this constitutes his second coming and the beginning of his second parousía or presence."So we can see that the early Jehovah witnesses believed that Jesus Parousia began in 1874. The truth book states this above and it is in all the old books. It was not until 1925 that the doctrine was changed. Before 1925 Jehovah’s witnesses believed that 1914 was the END of the Gentile times and Christ parousia (which had started in 1874) and the START of Armageddon. This is what Russell and Rutherford believed. The Witnesses back then were not knocking on people’s doors and telling them that Christ presence was GOING TO START IN 1914 but that it had started in 1874 and would last 50 years and would culminate in Armageddon. Then in 1925, we changed it. I have pasted the bit out of the “proclaimers” book that deals with this:
*** jv 138-9 10 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth ***
A real milestone was reached, therefore, in 1925, when The Watch Tower of March 1 featured the article "Birth of the Nation." It presented an eye-opening study of Revelation chapter 12. The article set forth evidence that the Messianic Kingdom had been born-established-in 1914, that Christ had then begun to rule on his heavenly throne, and that thereafter Satan had been hurled from heaven down to the vicinity of the earth. This was the good news that was to be proclaimed, the news that God’s Kingdom was already in operation. How this enlightened understanding stimulated these Kingdom proclaimers to preach to the ends of the earth!Then recently I came across this Watchtower.
*** w87 3/1 15 'Upon the Watchtower I Am Standing' ***
Each article in both The Watchtower and Awake! and every page, including the artwork, is scrutinized by selected members of the Governing Body before it is printed. Furthermore, those who assist in writing articles for The Watchtower are Christian elders who appreciate the seriousness of their assignment. (Compare 2 Chronicles 19:7.) They spend many hours in researching the Bible and other reference material to make sure that what is written is the truth and that it faithfully follows the Scriptures. (Ecclesiastes 12:9, 10; 2 Timothy 1:13) It is not unusual for one magazine article-that you may read in 15 minutes-to take from two weeks to over a month to prepare.
So then why do you print stuff like this?
*** g73 1/22 8 Who Can Accurately Predict Man's Future? ***
"Of all men used by God to prophesy, Jesus is outstanding. Based on what he said, along with the words of Daniel and John, Jehovah’s witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things."
*** w54 6/15 370 The Revelation of Jesus Christ ***
"4 Why, then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world-wide advertising of Christ’s return and his second presence. Since long before World War I Jehovah’s witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur."
This is the account of Jack H Nathan:
*** w90 9/1 11 Trusting in Jehovah Brings Happiness ***
"After the war ended in 1918, there was no work available in England, so I rejoined the army and went off to India as part of the peacetime garrison. In May 1920 the malaria flared up again, and I was sent up into the hills to recuperate. There I read all the books I could get my hands on, including the Bible. Reading the Scriptures intensified my interest in the Lord’s return.
Months later, down in Kanpur, I started a Bible study group, hoping to learn more about the Lord’s return. It was there that I met Fredrick James, a former British soldier who was now a zealous Bible Student. He explained to me that Jesus had been present since 1914, invisible to man. This was the most thrilling news I had ever heard."
This account is not supported by your chronology. This account places the experience around the 1920’s, around 5 years before the official doctrine had changed.-----------------------------------
w89 1/1 12 "The Hand of Jehovah Was With Them" ***
[as originally published in Watchtower magazine]
"The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century."
w89 1/1 12 "The Hand of Jehovah Was With Them" ***[as it appears on Watchtower bound volumes & CD-ROMs]
"The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our day."
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tr (Truth book) pg.9 1 Grand Blessings from God Near at Hand! ***
[as published prior to 1975]
Also, as reported back in 1960, a former United States Secretary of State, Dean Acheson, declared that our time is "a period of unequaled instability, unequaled violence." And he warned: "I know enough of what is going on to assure you that, in fifteen years from today, this world is going to be too dangerous to live in."
tr (Truth book) pg.9 1 Grand Blessings from God Near at Hand! ***
[as published after to 1975]
Also, as reported back in 1960, a former United States Secretary of State, Dean Acheson, declared that our time is "a period of unequaled instability, unequaled violence." Based on what he knew was then going on in the world, it was his conclusion that soon "this world is going to be too dangerous to live in."
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ts (Is This Life All There Is? 1974) 46 What Is This Thing Called "Soul"? ***
...God, who is himself "the God of truth" and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehood. (Psalm 31:5; Proverbs 6:16-19; Revelation 21:8) And, really, would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?Changing dates and doctrine can be reasoned away, but lying to faithful witnesses is hard to explain.
thinker
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Russell vs. Franz 6000 yrs.
by thinker inerroneous chronology and false conclusions.
many are the false chronologies and erroneous and very misleading applications of prophecy in our day, but the majority of them being little known it is not necessary that their errors should be specially pointed out.
but during the past five years numerous tracts and pamphlets have been published and widely circulated by a mr. dimbleby of england, and by a mr. totten of the united states, which present a so-called "bible chronology," and various prophetic interpretations based thereon, which are quite misleading to many,--inclining them to false expectations and thus diverting their attention away from correct expectations, and consequently away from the real duties of the present "harvest" work and time.
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thinker
ERRONEOUS CHRONOLOGY AND FALSE CONCLUSIONS.
MANY are the false chronologies and erroneous and very misleading applications of prophecy in our day, but the majority of them being little known it is not necessary that their errors should be specially pointed out. But during the past five years numerous tracts and pamphlets have been published and widely circulated by a Mr. Dimbleby of England, and by a Mr. Totten of the United States, which present a so-called "Bible chronology," and various prophetic interpretations based thereon, which are quite misleading to many,--inclining them to false expectations and thus diverting their attention away from correct expectations, and consequently away from the real duties of the present "harvest" work and time.
They believe, with us, that the 6,000 years of permitted sin are to be followed by the 1,000 years of Christ's reign of righteousness. But whereas the true Bible chronology shows that the 6,000 years from Adam ended in 1873 (the very year in which the world-wide depression began), their erroneous chronology would show the beginning of the seventh millennium to be over one hundred years in the future. (C.T. Russell) Note: 1873 + 100 yrs = 1973Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. From the most reliable investigations of Bible chronology, harmonizing with many accepted dates of secular history, we find that Adam was created in the autumn of the year 4026 B.C.E. Sometime in that year Eve could well have been created, directly after which God's rest day commenced. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975. (October 8, 1966 Awake!)(F. Franz)
In the beginning of Mr. Totten's presentations of his views, we thought that few probably would be misled by his errors; and that those few would quickly be undeceived by the utter failure of the predictions for 1891 and 1892. But no; we had given his followers credit for more discernment than they possessed; for it seems that they and Mr. Totten become more and more infatuated with their errors as the predictions one after another fail, until now they think of no date except 1899-1/4. There they expect something, nay, everything, to occur; whereas, according to Mr. Totten's claims, if reliable at all, everything should be over by that time. These words could apply to the Witnesses!
Mr. Totten himself, instead of coming out frankly and admitting that thus far his calculations and predictions are certainly erroneous, still infatuated with them, writes in the same positive manner as at first.
Some may consider this all the retraction of previous errors necessary; but we do not. Many will not see through it, and hence the necessity for helping the candid ones, as we now attempt to do.
If we have shown that Mr. Totten's chronology is not Biblical nor reliable,--and that it is absurd to talk of proving his (Usher-Dimbleby) chronology, or any other Bible chronology, by astronomy,--eclipses, etc.--because the Bible contains no record of eclipses and absolutely no data of any kind upon which astronomy could take hold,--and that his "Times of the Gentiles" were commenced at a wrong period, for which there is no authority in reason or Scripture,--and that all of his other prophetic "discoveries" are based upon these false premises and hence are equally erroneous and misleading, we have accomplished our purpose. Fred Franz must have read up on Mr. Totten when he built his chronology of 1975. -
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"IMPERFECT MEN"
by thinker insometimes i like to do a websearch just to see what pops up.
i used the term "imperfect men" at google recently.
thought you might be interested in some of the results.. .
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thinker
Sometimes I like to do a websearch just to see what pops up. I used the term "imperfect men" at google recently. Thought you might be interested in some of the results.
"Although the overseers are imperfect men, there is no need for anyone in the congregation to hold back from being submissive since it is Jehovah's arrangement and he will hold the overseers responsible for their actions." - Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry, 1983 p. 39
The full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 3 (p. 76-77, 1908)
Was Russell talking about the GB?The reason the Bible does not clearly teach the Trinity doctrine is simple: It is not a Bible teaching. Had God been a Trinity, he would surely have made it clear so that Jesus and his disciples could have taught it to others. And that vital information would have been included in God's inspired Word. It would not have been left to imperfect men to struggle with centuries later. (Watchtower 11/1/91 p.23)
"The Eternal has been merciful by showing that church organizations are run by imperfect men that often make self-seeking decisions." Worldwide Church of God
"The guru must be a perfect man. If he is not, there will be scandals in due course of time. If the governing body either allows imperfect men to be gurus or establishes a flawed system of initiations, this will also eventually lead to scandals." KRISHNA
"The purpose of human law is to lead men to virtue, not suddenly, but gradually. Wherefore it does not lay upon the multitude of imperfect men the burdens of those who are already virtuous, viz., that they should abstain from all evil. Otherwise these imperfect ones, being unable to bear such precepts, would break out into yet greater evils..." Thomas Aquinas
"The effective practice of the Christian faith in this world will always cause tension among imperfect men,even redeemed imperfect men." Presbyterian Church in America
"All faiths are a gift of God, but partake of human imperfection as they pass through the medium of humanity. God-given religion is beyond all speech. Imperfect men put it into such language as they can command, and their words are interpreted by other men equally imperfect." M.K. Gandhi
"I only said this to you regarding the New Testament so that you would understand that God deals with us as imperfect men in an imperfect world awaiting deliverance from the curse of sin (Romans chapter eight); and that God uses those who are imperfect to convey his perfect will imperfectly for those of us who are imperfect. As such, imperfection is a part of the written revelation to us by imperfect men in an imperfect world with imperfect preservation and the interposition of those writings of deceptive character, regardless of the motivations for doing so." Letter from a baptist
IMPACT stands for Imperfect Men Prayerfully Accountable in Christ Together and that really describes what our men’s ministry is all about.
But since no Perfect Church exists
Made of Imperfect men,
Then let’s cease looking for that Church
And love the Church we’re in. (Brethern in Christ Church)
"The Book of Mormon does contain incorrect grammar. Real prophets are men, good but still imperfect men, chosen by God to deliver his messages to the rest of us." (LDS)
Yes, the Torah is a document filled with the lives of imperfect men, trusting in the providence and grace of a perfect God. (Jewish)
"What belief can we place on imperfect men, especially since we have no means of ascertaining the full nature of their imperfectness." Brahmanism
"The fathers of the faith were all imperfect men." United Methodist
The purpose of this paper is to present the stories, as much as can be known, of these men, the founders of the Minnesota Synod, and in doing so to show how our Lord does His work through such weak and imperfect servants.
"I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught." Joesph Smith
When you look at the fellowship of the Spirit as God looks at it, it is downright silly for puny and ignorant men to talk about "withdrawing fellowship" from other brethren, the sons and daughters of the Lord almighty, who loves them and cherishes them as His own. Of course men can put you out of their synagogues and Jesus said they would (John 16:2). But anything fleshly and imperfect men can put you out of, you are as well off out of it as you would be in it. Being in it will not save your soul and being out of it will not damn you. All it will do is to free you from tyranny!These are just the religious contexts and don't include the Greek idea that "women are imperfect men" nor the poets idea that "trees are imperfect men".
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WT defines propaganda!
by thinker inthe following is from a watchtower.org webpage on propaganda.
my comments are in red.. http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/6/22/article_03.htm.
"a fool will believe anything.
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thinker
Hello jerome,
I don't completely understand your post, but I'll try to answer as much of it as I can."the watchtower bases practically everything on the bible"
Basing things on the bible is not much to brag about if your interpretation changes constantly."what do the people called apostates base their ideas apon?"
I base my ideas on the bible and anything else I might want to read. Since I'm not a JW, I have the freedom to read many things and decide for myself what is correct."from what i have seen thus far the propaganda goes both ways"
This is true. I have seen some false information about the WT online. I always try to check out what I read to make sure it is correct."are you not encouraging them to break away from the institution?"
No. I do not encourage people to leave. I expose the history of the watchtower, which they try to hide. I expose lies, cover-ups and deceptions. Some JW's read all this and still remain in the organization. This is fine with me, at least they do so with open eyes."how do rank and file live their lives?"
Most JW's are fine people. It is the leaders of the Org. that I have a problem with."most people who leave the org now donot solely base their opions on the bible anymore
they embrace ideas eminating from other beliefs
dont they?"If you read the backgrounds of the people here you will find that many DO still follow the bible. Now they decide for themselves what it means rather than letting a governing body do it for them. Some join other religions, others want no religion.
"the hardest thing for me to do is to point out the bad frutiage of
these false prophets"You mentioned shunning already. I know active JW's personally. Many take on the characteristics of their leaders: denial, self-deception, changing memories of past events to suit them. While they don't lie intentionally, like the GB; they convince themselves of a different set of past events to clear their conscience.
For some people it may be a good religion. All I want is to give factual information about it.thinker