My wife DA'd just before we got married. I've never been a JW, but I just shunned right along with her! All her JW family won't communicate with me. Her former friends won't either. There is one friend who secretly is associating with us, but she's really nervous about it in public.
thinker
JoinedPosts by thinker
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Who shuns you?
by Dawn inafter reading a number of posts it sounds like most of you have been shunned even by your immediate family members (parents, brothers, sisters)after you were df'd.. i am shunned by my sister-in-law - but she's it out of the entire family.
my uncle, brothers, mother, and father (an elder before he passed away) all continued to associate with me - we even go out to dinners together.. so here's my question - is my family the minority?
i thought that only non-family members had to shun you but family was ok as long as they don't discuss spiritual issues.
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Lies! Lies! Lies?
by Ephanyminitas inexactly what has the society outright lied about?
i mean stuff that can be proven.
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thinker
"As regards the alleged unlawful activities of Jehovah's Witnesses with children the applicant association submits that children cannot become members of the
association but only participate, together with their parents, in the
religious activities of the community. "
"In respect of the refusal of blood transfusion, the applicant (Watchtower Society) association submits that while this is part of the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses, its acceptance depends on the personal choice of the individual concerned. There are no religious sanctions for a Jehovah's Witness who chooses to accept blood transfusion. Therefore, the fact that the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is against blood transfusion cannot amount to a threat to public health, every individual being free in his or her choice."
(The European Commission of Human Rights sitting in private on 3 July 1997. The applicant association (Watchtower Society) was represented by MM. Alain Garay, Philippe Goni and Michel de Guillenchmidt, avocats la Cour, Paris, France, and by Mr. Lioubomir Kioutchokov, founding member of the applicant
association. Application No. 28626/95)
From Jehovah's Witness Office of Public Information:
For Immediate Release
October 8, 1998
Victory for human rights in Eastern Europe:
Christian religion sets legal precedent in Bulgaria
This important legal victory came after intervention from the European Commission of Human Rights of the Council of Europe. In July 1997, the Commission suggested that the government of Bulgaria enter into a friendly settlement with Jehovah's Witnesses. On March 8, 1998, the Commission accepted the terms of the settlement, which included the government's promise to grant legal recognition to Jehovah's Witnesses. As part of the settlement, Bulgaria also agreed to create a bill that will allow alternative civilian service for conscientious objectors. The terms of the agreement involved no change in the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses. ( http://www.jw-media.org/releases/981008a.htm)--------------
WHY did the Watchtower Society change its literature distribution program in 1990, eliminating set prices for literature items? JWs believe the Governing Body instituted a "simplified" arrangement. Few know the change really took place because Jimmy Swaggart lost his case in court. In a February 21, 1990 letter to congregations, the Society explained the new policy this way:
By adopting a method of literature distribution based completely on donation, Jehovah's people are able to greatly simplify our Bible education work and separate ourselves from those who commercialize religion.However, this is what really happened:
Early 1980 State of California informs Jimmy Swaggart Ministries that tax is due for religious books and tapes sold in the state since 1974. Swaggart eventually pays the tax--$183,000.00--but sues for a refund. The case begins moving toward the U.S. Supreme Court.
February, 1989 U.S. Supreme Court rules it is illegal for Texas (and 14 other states) to exempt religious books from sales tax. Some states had been taxing religious books all along.
Summer, 1989 WT Society gives away "free" books released at U.S. conventions. Witnesses are instructed to place donations in contribution boxes to cover the cost.
June 22, 1989 Watchtower Society, files amicus curiae ("friend of the court") brief with U.S. Supreme Court in Jimmy Swaggart case. Others filing similar briefs include National Council of Churches and Society for Krishna Consciousness.
January 17, 1990 U.S. Supreme Court rules against Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, declaring that the sales tax must be paid.
February 9, 1990 WT Society writes letter to congregations announcing that literature will no longer be sold at Kingdom Hall and no price will be set in door-to-door distribution.
February 25, 1990 February 9th letter from Society is read at Sunday meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses across the United States.
March 1, 1990 New policy of distributing literature without naming a price goes into effect.
The March 15, 1990, WATCHTOWER magazine and March 22nd AWAKE!--printed earlier--still say "25 cents (U.S.) a copy" and "$5.00 (U.S.) per year." The April 1, 1990, Watchtower no longer carries a price.
March 11, 1990 Announcement is made at Kingdom Halls in the U.S. that food will be available at no cost, on a freewill donation basis, at JW conventions.
--------------I read some of your literature regarding the early Bible Students. Here are the quotes that I found:
*** ka 209-10 11 "Here Is the Bridegroom!" ***
55 In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." In its chapter 11, entitled "The Count of Time," it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man's existence into the decade of the 1970's. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or Parousia. The millennium that was to be marked by the detaining of Satan the Devil enchained in the abyss and by the reign of the 144,000 joint heirs with Christ in heavenly glory was therefore yet in the future. What, then, about the parousia (presence) of Christ? Page 324 of the above book positively says: "The King's presence or parousia began in 1914." Also, in the Watchtower issue of July 15, 1949 (page 215, paragraph 22), the statement is made: " . . . Messiah, the Son of man, came into Kingdom power A.D. 1914 and . . . this constitutes his second coming and the beginning of his second parousia; or presence."So we can see that the early Jehovah witnesses believed that Jesus Parousia began in 1874. The truth book states this above and it is in all the old books. It was not until 1925 that the doctrine was changed. Before 1925 Jehovah's witnesses believed that 1914 was the END of the Gentile times and Christ parousia (which had started in 1874) and the START of Armageddon. This is what Russell and Rutherford believed. The Witnesses back then were not knocking on people's doors and telling them that Christ presence was GOING TO START IN 1914 but that it had started in 1874 and would last 50 years and would culminate in Armageddon. Then in 1925, we changed it. I have pasted the bit out of the proclaimers” book that deals with this:
*** jv 138-9 10 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth ***
A real milestone was reached, therefore, in 1925, when The Watch Tower of March 1 featured the article "Birth of the Nation." It presented an eye-opening study of Revelation chapter 12. The article set forth evidence that the Messianic Kingdom had been born-established-in 1914, that Christ had then begun to rule on his heavenly throne, and that thereafter Satan had been hurled from heaven down to the vicinity of the earth. This was the good news that was to be proclaimed, the news that God's Kingdom was already in operation. How this enlightened understanding stimulated these Kingdom proclaimers to preach to the ends of the earth!Then recently I came across this Watchtower.
*** w87 3/1 15 'Upon the Watchtower I Am Standing' ***
Each article in both The Watchtower and Awake! and every page, including the artwork, is scrutinized by selected members of the Governing Body before it is printed. Furthermore, those who assist in writing articles for The Watchtower are Christian elders who appreciate the seriousness of their assignment. (Compare 2 Chronicles 19:7.) They spend many hours in researching the Bible and other reference material to make sure that what is written is the truth and that it faithfully follows the Scriptures. (Ecclesiastes 12:9, 10; 2 Timothy 1:13) It is not unusual for one magazine article-that you may read in 15 minutes-to take from two weeks to over a month to prepare.
So then why do you print stuff like this?
*** g73 1/22 8 Who Can Accurately Predict Man's Future? ***Of all men used by God to prophesy, Jesus is outstanding. Based on what he said, along with the words of Daniel and John, Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things."
*** w54 6/15 370 The Revelation of Jesus Christ ***
"4 Why, then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world-wide advertising of Christ's return and his second presence. Since long before World War I Jehovah's witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur."
This is the account of Jack H Nathan:
*** w90 9/1 11 Trusting in Jehovah Brings Happiness ***
"After the war ended in 1918, there was no work available in England, so I rejoined the army and went off to India as part of the peacetime garrison. In May 1920 the malaria flared up again, and I was sent up into the hills to recuperate. There I read all the books I could get my hands on, including the Bible. Reading the Scriptures intensified my interest in the Lord's return.
Months later, down in Kanpur, I started a Bible study group, hoping to learn more about the Lord's return. It was there that I met Fredrick James, a former British soldier who was now a zealous Bible Student. He explained to me that Jesus had been present since 1914, invisible to man. This was the most thrilling news I had ever heard."
This account is not supported by your chronology. This account places the experience around the 1920's, around 5 years before the official doctrine had changed.----------------
Changing their own words:
w89 1/1 12 "The Hand of Jehovah Was With Them" ***
[as originally published in Watchtower magazine]
"The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century."
w89 1/1 12 "The Hand of Jehovah Was With Them" ***[as it appears on Watchtower bound volumes & CD-ROMs]
"The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our day."
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tr (Truth book) pg.9 1 Grand Blessings from God Near at Hand! ***
[as published prior to 1975]
Also, as reported back in 1960, a former United States Secretary of State, Dean Acheson, declared that our time is "a period of unequaled instability, unequaled violence." And he warned: "I know enough of what is going on to assure you that, in fifteen years from today, this world is going to be too dangerous to live in."
tr (Truth book) pg.9 1 Grand Blessings from God Near at Hand! ***
[as published after to 1975]
Also, as reported back in 1960, a former United States Secretary of State, Dean Acheson, declared that our time is "a period of unequaled instability, unequaled violence." Based on what he knew was then going on in the world, it was his conclusion that soon "this world is going to be too dangerous to live in." -
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thinker
I Want to Be a Sheep
by thinkerI just wanna be a sheep
and follow the slave.
I just wanna believe
the dead sleep in their grave.I don't want much time
to stop and to think.
I'll hide all my doubts
in a bottle of drink.I'll close both my eyes
to the hate and the sin;
if you just open up
and let me back in.This child was not raised
to think on his own.
You'd think by now
this child would have grown.(more poems)
http://www.geocities.com/avalon_dream/Jehovahs_Witness_Poetry -
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How much more can they endure?
by thinker ini found some poetry online from active jw's.
it's shocking how much depression, pain, and sadness is in their words.
below are a few excerpts:.
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thinker
There's more. Here's a link to a poem from an active "sister" about being abused as a child.
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How much more can they endure?
by thinker ini found some poetry online from active jw's.
it's shocking how much depression, pain, and sadness is in their words.
below are a few excerpts:.
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thinker
I found some poetry online from active JW's. It's shocking how much depression, pain, and sadness is in their words. Below are a few excerpts:
I came to Jehovah on bended knee,
To tell Him of the persecution that had befallen me.
I said to Jehovah: "I can't take anymore.
Please bring soon your great day of war!""I endure and endure; I'm at the end of my rope.
I really don't think with much more I can cope.
It's a constant pressure both day and night.
Between the World and Satan, I don't see much light!"
Jehovah was silent as He could be
As I rattled on with what bothered me.
He lovingly listened as I emptied my head,
Then softly smiled before he said:
"I understand what you are going through.
This time of the end makes it harder on you.If you feel as though your heart has been cracked in half,
and that living is in vane;
If all you have left is a delirious laugh,
that elusively hides the pain,
and you just need something to keep you sane,
just remember to be strong, this system won't last for long,
Armageddon's very near, and Paradise is almost here!
If you have no place to call your home,
and deep inside you feel all alone,
If your conscience has become callus as a stone,
and the sinful inclinations chill you to the bone,
Just stay faithful and hold your ground,
this old system won't always be around;
and even though this world may jeer,
it's because they blindly fail to realize,
that Paradise, is almost here!Have no fear, for Jehovah's not sleeping...
He's aware of our suffering, our plight...
he has seen us, and he's heard our weeping
and soon he'll make everything right!
It may seem to us to take forever...
How much longer will this system be?Do you ever feel you're carrying a load
That's VERY HEAVY as you walk down the road
Your traveling the road that leads to life
But it's FULL of problems and stress & strife.
You wonder sometimes as you're walking there
Why the stress in life seems more than your share
You want relief and it just doesn't come,
And you wish you had time to 'just have some fun!'
Some days you bear much physical pain
Other days you feel much MENTAL strain.
Into your week it seems tragedy runs
Before you know it ANOTHER ONE comes!
You feel sometimes like you fell in a PIT
It's deep and dark and nowhere to sit.
So you just lie down and start to cry
And sometimes you wish your soul would just die.
We're struggling each day, from morning to night ...We’re beaten & driven like waves in a sea.
When we’re down under, the sky we can’t see.
We’re all pushed & driven to always do more.
Till sometimes we feel it’s such a big War .
That we cry and we long for QUIET & PEACE
To live in a world, where life will not cease.
We’re rats in a cage, we long to be FREE
Sometimes it seems we never will be.We know our faults and get depressed,
and really feel life is a test.
He tries to make us feel despair -
Like Jehovah doesn't really care
About the good we try to do,
for the good things seem to us so few."Oh Jehovah, we are so weak sometimes
Our weary bodies, weaken our minds
And sometimes we cannot clearly see
That life beyond will set us free-----
Free from sadness, pain and woe
Things that make us feel so low-----How often I have cried to you in sorrow and in pain...
with prayer and supplication, while my tears just fell like rain.
So many times not knowing how to find a pathway out
of some trialsome situations that just made me want to shout!
Many times I'm overwhelmed - like drowning in the sea...
with waves so very high that come down crashing over me.
They toss me over here, and then they toss me over there...
At times I wonder if there's anyone who truly cares.
So many things just go wrong, though I try to do what's right...
Every day lived in this system is a struggle and a fight!
Never knowing what will happen next - circumstances unforseen..
Always wishing and just hoping for things that might have been.How sad and unnecessary!
thinker -
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The "Tree" of WHAT?
by Farkel inthe account of adam and eve as a literal event is so full of logical contradictions that it is mind-boggling.
it only takes a minimum of scrutiny to discover that fact, too.. there is something god did not want adam and eve to know.
he didnt want them to know the difference between good and evil.
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thinker
Aguest,
Don't let the facts get in your way!
My kid daughter can tell you the difference between a CIRCLE and a SPHERE. I live on a sphere.
Here's your world:
(from the 7th century)Read all about it.
http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/EMwebpages/205mono.html -
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The "Tree" of WHAT?
by Farkel inthe account of adam and eve as a literal event is so full of logical contradictions that it is mind-boggling.
it only takes a minimum of scrutiny to discover that fact, too.. there is something god did not want adam and eve to know.
he didnt want them to know the difference between good and evil.
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thinker
A simple correction:
Farkel asked, "in the East of what...?"
Aguest replied that this was a mistranslation unique to JW's.WRONG!
Look up any map from the Middle Ages and you will find a flat earth, (either circular or rectangular). Located in the east corner of the earth you will often find EDEN! Many religious men actually went out looking for this place. The total area of the earth was very small in these maps. Some of our language today reflects this erroneous view of the earth, for example the Mediterreanean Sea means literally "the sea in the middle of the earth" Medi=middle, terra=earth. This false view of the earth resulted from people faithfully following the bible and not questioning it.Keep questioning Farkel.
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"Gotta go to the memorial."- a poem.
by CornerStone ingotta go to the memorial.
gotta put on a show.
don't wanna sit there.
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thinker
Cornerstone,
Good one. Can I copy this to my JW poem site?
http://www.geocities.com/avalon_dream/Jehovahs_Witness_Poetrythinker
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Riddle from Gospel of Thomas
by bboyneko ingospel of thomas verse 11: the dead are not alive, and the living will not die.
during the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive.
when you are in the light, what will you do?
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thinker
I've always liked the gospel of Thomas. Here's my view of the passage:
The dead are not alive, and the living will not die.
To the eternal, timeless soul life and death are illusions.
During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive.
Ditto bboyneko.
When you are in the light, what will you do?
In the light = soul only, after death.
On the day when you were one, you became two.
One: one soul without a body. Became two = entered a physical body, became body & soul.
But when you become two, what will you do?"
As body & soul what will you do to enrich your soul before you die and become one (soul only) again.
thinker
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How do I know when God is helping me?
by Tin Man ini have needed his help for a long time but i do not seem to comprehend anymore when he is helping me or even if he is, cause i have been through too much emotional upsets for too long.. tin man
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thinker
TinMan,
I'm not really what you would call a christian, but I do have ideas about God. During trying times in my life I made a point not to ASK God FOR anything. I simply asked Him to take control of my life. Just sit in the backseat and let Him drive! The journey wasn't always short but it did finally get better and better. Take the pressure off yourself and let someone else take over for a while.