Hi everyone,
Thanks for the comments and reflections and for the hugs, Essie and its nice to meet you too Little Witch. TJ, I've been around frequently but not written a great deal. I have a lot of things happening right now and after June 2 I will hopefully have some good news and will write about it.
Bikerchic's comment about the "woe to the pregnant women......" syndrome really bugs me. My mother relates how the faithful chided her for being pregnant when she was carrying me! I sat through the DC in 1987 listening to a talk about irresponsible child-rearing at this time with my pregnant wife (now-ex). My son is 15 and will be a sophomore at high school in September. In three years he'll be in college. If we'd all done as the Watchtower suggested there be several missing generations.
Regarding the latter thought in this thread, the old-timers and the hoax, I think many feel that way but blank the thought out because their whole world will collapse if they reason about it. My Dad is like that, he got quite upset recently when I asked him about current Watchtower thinking on the role of the United Nations and the unknown 'King of the North'. I pushed him too far when I asked him to explain who the 'faithful and discrete slave" is/are and what relationship the JW GB has to all the so-called 'anointed'. He quit the conversation at that point because he knows there is a big hole in JW doctrine.
The last time I spoke to my mom I tip-toed around our conversation. I bit my tongue when she explained how lucky they are to have a supplementary pension from dad's last employer (16 years)...I didn't say anything about not planning for retirement with the end so soon. I think my mom bit her tongue when I commented on the importance of planning for retirement and how I felt that I couldn't rely on getting a penny from the UK government when I retire despite 17 years of paying in to the state system, and that I am dependant on investing now for my future.
As for the strength of conviction of the younger JW generations, if the Watchtower said that the door-to-door ministry was an optional service (as opposed to voluntary) how many JWs would ever knock a door again? I guess that the number would be a single digit percentage and that within a year field service would be gone forever.
Regards,
Thirdson
Thirdson
JoinedPosts by Thirdson
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14
Changing of the Guard
by Thirdson inmy mother attended the funeral of an elderly jw recently.
the person that passed away was in her 90's had been a jw since the 1930's and her late husband was one of the "annointed" although she didn't claim that for herself.
every few months i hear of old jws passing away.
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Thirdson
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14
Changing of the Guard
by Thirdson inmy mother attended the funeral of an elderly jw recently.
the person that passed away was in her 90's had been a jw since the 1930's and her late husband was one of the "annointed" although she didn't claim that for herself.
every few months i hear of old jws passing away.
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Thirdson
My mother attended the funeral of an elderly JW recently. The person that passed away was in her 90's had been a JW since the 1930's and her late husband was one of the "annointed" although she didn't claim that for herself. Every few months I hear of old JWs passing away. These are the people of my parents generation,the old faithful JWs who lived through the 60s and the excitement of the soon-to-come-end circa 1975. These are the ones who had all the knowledge, knew JW doctrine and all its changes and were the ones that answered up in the "deep" Watchtower studies and the book studies.
The old guard is changing. No longer will there be any JWs who remember 8 day conventions, or even 5 day conventions with evening sessions. They are handing over to the wishy-washy generation who never bother to read any of the "food" and who always relied on the old-timers to be there. It doesn't bode well for this organization. The central core is dying off and I don't believe those of the great influx of the 70s and 80s are that willing to keep supporting the end-is-coming-soon notion and all that that entails.
In 11 years time my dad will be 84, I wonder what will be left of the 1914 doctrine and whether he will live to see the death of the parousia.
Thirdson
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4
Lunar Landing Story
by hippikon inon july 20, 1969, as commander of the apollo 11 lunar module, neil armstrong was the first person to set foot on the moon.
his first words after stepping on the moon, "that's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind", were televised to earth and heard by millions.
but just before he reentered the lander, he made the enigmatic remark: "good luck, mr.
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Thirdson
Hi Hippikon,
In the version I read it was oral sex, "you want oral sex?"
Unfortunately, it isn't a true story, I wish it were though. It's just another urban legend.
Thirdson
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1
West Indian Goat Curry
by Thirdson inthis is a bit of fluff and maybe i should inlcude it in the "cookbook" thread but.... yesterday at supper, (it was curry night and i cook the curry), we were discussing food and i told my wife that one of my best curry memories is west indian curried goat that i ate at a number times at west indian (jw of course) weddings.
after the normal reception buffet, and the wedding cake, (traditional english sort, fruit, brandy, marzipan, and icing) these weddings included a late night serving of goat curry.
i guess the enormous quantity of curry must have been cooking all day long but it tasted wonderful.. i spent the first 10 years of my life in a inner city area of the english midlands and attended a multi-racial school where being white was not a majority.
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Thirdson
This is a bit of fluff and maybe I should inlcude it in the "cookbook" thread but...
Yesterday at supper, (it was curry night and I cook the curry), we were discussing food and I told my wife that one of my best curry memories is West Indian Curried Goat that I ate at a number times at West Indian (JW of course) weddings. After the normal reception buffet, and the wedding cake, (Traditional English sort, fruit, brandy, marzipan, and icing) these weddings included a late night serving of goat curry. I guess the enormous quantity of curry must have been cooking all day long but it tasted wonderful.
I spent the first 10 years of my life in a inner city area of the English Midlands and attended a multi-racial school where being white was not a majority. The cong of JWs we attended was mix of white, Carribean and Greek Cypriot and even after we left the area we attended a number of weddings from the old congregation as the kids we knew and grew up with matured and married.
If anyone has a traditional goat curry they would like to share please let me know. I have collected a number for the "net" but until I try them all I will not know if I am getting close.
Thirdson
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6
Extreme Sports? Ever get counselled?
by shamus inwhen a jw, i began to get seriously into mountaineering / rock / ice climbing.
somehow i escaped being counselled about it, by talking to an elder in advance of their finding out, and having a fit.
statistics prove that more persons die from unroped "scrambling" than mountaineering with ropes).
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Thirdson
Hi Shamus,
When I was 20 I was encouraged by a college friend to try parachuting. I gave it a try and liked it enough to do it a few times more including sky-diving. Within a few weeks we had a special needs item on dangerous sports and sky-diving was specifically mentioned. I had by this time quit but that was because of the time commitment. I took up down-hill skiing instead. That was more dangerous in my opinion but I never got counseled about skiing vacations every year.
Thirdson
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59
If This Place Was A Congregation, Who Would Be The Elders, MS and CO's?
by minimus ini know some of you hate the idea of jwd being like a congregation but just for fun, let's imagine who would "serve" as the elders (presiding overseer, secretary, service overseer) etc.
and what "privileges" you would be given.
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Thirdson
I'd be the guy who when he did attend never answered up...except when the CO was in town when I'd answer 5 times in the Watchtower study and have my hand up all the time the CO was on the platform...and thoroughly piss-off the "faithful."
Thirdson
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10
Homo Sapiens, Neanderthals and the Creation Book
by Thirdson inthis quote is from the bbc's web site: .
the results, they say, indicate that neanderthals made little or no contribution to the genes of modern humans.
out of africa .
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Thirdson
Hello, Old Hippie,
:you point out that outwardly very similar creatures may be very different when it comes to their gene pool (is that the word?), whereas outwardly very different-looking creatures may be very similar "inside".
That is partly my point. Neanderthals are human but modern humans are not related by descent. We share a common ancester but that is much further back in time. Neanderthals are very similar to modern humans, used tools and had a culture. Watchtower writers have previously pointed out that Neanderthals are not the bent over hulking ape-like creatures they were once depicted to be and are a branch of humans (because of culture, tool use and anatomy) that no longer exists and by implication are descendants of Adam of Genesis. This view of Neanderthals is incorrect if modern humans and Neanderthals are not from the same gene pool. Neanderthals predate modern humans and thus predate mythical Adam.
mfg
Thirdson
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10
Homo Sapiens, Neanderthals and the Creation Book
by Thirdson inthis quote is from the bbc's web site: .
the results, they say, indicate that neanderthals made little or no contribution to the genes of modern humans.
out of africa .
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Thirdson
This quote is from the BBC's web site:
The results, they say, indicate that Neanderthals made little or no contribution to the genes of modern humans.
Out of Africa
The mitochondrial DNA of the two ancient species were very different, claims the study.
"This discontinuity is difficult to reconcile with the hypothesis that both Neanderthals and early anatomically modern humans contributed to the current European gene pool."
The finding supports the theory that the "anatomically modern human" arose in Africa some 150,000 years ago and dispersed, displacing the Neanderthals on the way.
It is a blow to the "multi-regional" theory, in which some interbreeding between Neanderthal and early humans is thought to have taken place.
See this link for the fill report:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3023685.stm
Ignoring the dating issue, this still poses a problem for the Watchtower's Creation Book theory that hominids found in the fossil record are either fully human (homo sapiens), merely variations of modern human albeit pre-flood ones (Neanderthals included) -- or are fully higher order ape and not human. The difference between hominid finds and modern humans, are according to the Watchtower writers, no different than the current anatomical variations between races or variations in physical size in today's human population. Based on this evidence reported, the Watchtower writers would have to claim that Neanderthals are not human at all, were not "created in God's image" and are merely a lower order of mammalian life. The fact that they share many anatomical features and cultural similarities to modern humans would have to be dismissed and Neanderthals regarded as one of God's experiments prior to creating Adam and Eve. Alternatively, the writers could just keep quiet and hope that JWs don't think about the problems with news reports like the above quote.
Is the Watchtower's dismissal of modern anthropology and genetics any different to the Catholic church's rejection of the cosmology of Copernicus and Galileo?
Thirdson
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26
What's The Worst Job You've Ever Had?
by SYN inso what's the worst job you've ever had?.
book-servant at the kingdom hall would be pretty bad, but ministerial lawn servant is probably worse.. outside the society, probably my worst job was waitering.
i have a very short short-term memory, although this is more than made up for by my ltm, which means i made a really sh*te waiter, let me tell you.
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Thirdson
I have a wrist-watch inscribed and given to me by my former colleagues that reminds that: "whenever things look bad they were once worse."
I worked for a small sales and service outfit of a machine-tool company after I quit my nice production-engineering job because the of the military contracts I was working on (can you guess why?)
I worked on installation and service for a couple of years and worked in some of the most attrocious and Dickensian places in industrial Britain. Some factories had no heat in winter, were sh*tholes so bad I refused to wash-up in their facilities. I burnt my self with acid, nearly severed a finger and narrowly avoided being crushed by a machine that fell-over. I worked unpaid overtime frequently and I worry that I may have damaged my hearing. I had to drive a left-hand drive truck on roads designed for right-hand drive vehicles and once jacked-knifed a trailer on the M6 in north Birmingham.
I did well, sort of and became service manager but finding a similar job of similiar wage and with knowledge of a narrow section of industrial processing was difficult. It took 8 years and I found a job that simplified life so that I could retrain and do something different. I do something different now.
Thirdson
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35
Did You Put Off Saving For Retirement?
by Shakita ini didn't think that i would ever retire in this system of things.
i felt that long before retirement age the new system would be here and i would have no money worries.
as the years rolled by and i didn't have any thing saved for retirement, i became more and more anxious.
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Thirdson
All,
(attempt two!)
This subject is an area where the failed expectations and the controlling nature of the JW religion can really be felt. Being disappointed about failed expectations is one thing but the adverse effect of finding oneself in the latter days of life without a comfortable means of support is something else. True, a lot of people fail to make proper plans for the future but the Watchtower combined retirement/insurance plan is woefully lacking in any payout.
I wish I knew 20 years ago what I now know to be true and had started a regular savings plan for just a modest amount. Compound interest is a wonderful thing. It is important that everyone consider the effects of untimely death and make sure that dependants are adequately cared for after our unscheduled demise.
A while back I wondered what my JW elder and oldest brother was doing for retirement savings and asked him in a round about way but he declined to give an answer (he did a lot of that until he stopped corresponding all together). Like Anne, I have been acused of being materialistic by my parents but that I believe was spoken in frustration that I am far away and cannot be controlled by them. I do have a much better standard of living than they ever had but that is partly because I have a career (unlike my Dad) and made choices in life based on my working skills and have been prepared to get an education, retrain when necessary and relocate. Part of that process now includes planning for the post-work period of my life and I think it bugs my parents when I discuss plans for son's college education, his career and my retirement. In the 1950's when my parents became JWs armaggedon was 'just around the corner', and it still is...it's some corner is all I can say.
Thirdson