would physical perfection not given perfect control over pain, copious amount of self-made morphine? perfect love kills pain too, perfectly. He certainly had perfect control over the procreation pleasure, never even a hint of temptation. wish he had lived past a thousand to prove his "second Adam" status. far worse agonies suffered by so many for so much longer. How about a real impalement, without the nails, from the bottom up?
prologos
JoinedPosts by prologos
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42
Did Jesus really suffer? Really?
by purrpurr inso over the course of three days he had a trial which doesn't seem to have bothered him much.
he got whipped ok that would have been agony and then put on a torture stake/ cross/ whatever yes that would have been hell.
but he was on it for a day and the whole thing lasted for three days.
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88
What was there before the Big Bang?
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpuhj98vjoa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hik8hj0_t9q.
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prologos
sir 82: "There was no "before". Time is an element of the universe, so it began at the big bang too. Time might not be as short lived as the universe. it is just that we got entangled with the elusive 4st dimension when we started to move through time in our beginning. While everything is linked to time in our expanding, moving world, why would that preclude that the imperceptible 4st dimension did predate the universe? (imperceptible in the sense that all we can do is measure our movement through it, or the movement of others.)
It is kind of nice to think that time will be still there, when we have stopped moving through it. ?
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What was there before the Big Bang?
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpuhj98vjoa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hik8hj0_t9q.
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prologos
Simon: "--Without gravity, there is no time, why do you say that? The way I see it, in the equations of relativity, the more gravity there is , the less time you have, or to be more precise the slower you move through time, as seen by others. and regarding the supra-nothingness you seem to be mentioning , very well put by the way, it is just this that the video seem to refer to, when there is mention of the nothing being full of energy . If they are also contemplating the existence of other universes, like of course Penrose did, the idea of an absolute emptiness before, and still "outside" our realm becomes a possibility. -
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What was there before the Big Bang?
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpuhj98vjoa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hik8hj0_t9q.
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prologos
well, listened to it, and it did not say anything about that "before" question, but it reiterated the findings, that no matter how much the universe expands, there is always more energy in the newly acquired space, implying and confirming that there is no such thing as nothingness, but that even the best vacuum is filled with energy, hence there was energy before there was space and matter. It said nothing how the laws emerged, and having multiverses just kicks the ball further down the road.
another note about the flat , "dark matter"-caused even velocity curves in galaxies. Have they thought about the fact that there is no gravity in the center of galaxies, the earth, stars? with no gravity in the center, and max in the periphery, why would it be surprising that in a matter-filled entity, like a galaxy, the outer velocity would be high? so, to quote the video" they invented dark matter ". nothing said about the nothing before the beginning, about time itself. but a reminder if you look at the real thing, much more impressive than the video visual, kerosine - burning big bang, how small we are. thank you is all i can say.
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ANZAC day.
by zeb inthe 25th april in australia and new zealand is called anzac day.
the word is from australia new zealand army corp.. on this day are commemorated the lives of those lost in war.
the 25th april is the day in 1915 that the forces under incompetent commanders landed on the coast of turkey at a place called gallipoli or galliboli in turkish, in an effort to force turkey out of the great war.. the landings were an unmitigated blunder.
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prologos
The heroism, the sacrifices for the delusion of Empires. Where have all the flowers gone? Abraham Martin and John? -
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Another generation....
by joey jojo init has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?
the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.
the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.
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prologos
Along with the beginning of the invisible reign of Christ, vintage 1914, the invisible war in heaven, wt tried to give the world an invisible end, it did not work, people kept dying. " The World has ended, Millions now living will never die " read the golden age.
That was wt plan A, finishing at Armageddon. The scary part is that Plan B, the resurrection, is a comparable failing disaster, proof: The supposed 1918 resurrected anointed, the Peter Paul and Mary s, the Johns, did not help the FDS of 1919 to get their generation doctrines straight. They were not there when we needed them.
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Being Positive around family that are still in.
by freddo inif you are a fader or you have reduced activity markedly - say resigned as a pioneer or an elder or ms or gone inactive and still have some relationship with your immediate family or spouse - how do you stay positive around them when you feel like shaking them out of their stupor but believe deep down it would be counter productive?.
thoughts from all most welcome..
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prologos
I think all these interactions are golden opportunities to sow seeds to freedom from wt's preposterous promises. keep it non-confrontational--positive. upbeat. ,
Given the simplistic mindset of most serious believers, it could be easy to subtly introduce a thought that later will trigger Eureka moments in them. humor helps too, to make it fun.
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Another generation....
by joey jojo init has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?
the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.
the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.
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prologos
TD: yes your points refuting the wt doctrines are more detailed than my simplistic " here are the facts", and they are funny' treatment. I hope many lurkers can see the futility, the contradictions. thank you.
: "--Any way you look at it, an "Earthly hope" is not a doctrine that can be taught longer than about a generation or so.: Yes if you a mean a generation that will never die, one generation at a time. never die 1918. never die 1935, never die 1975 -- ad infini.
: :--allowing for the existence of "Other Sheep" in the Christian era who are not "Identical with that "great crowd"" removes that reward. Explain please ? The Christian Era is ~ 2000 years, , the Great Crowd aspirant time slot only 80-100 long. I thought wt taught that all but the anointed (about 80 per year) would be sheeplike resurrected on the Earth , like the Catholic " --I believe in the resurrection of the flesh--"?
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Another generation....
by joey jojo init has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?
the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.
the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.
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prologos
TD: "---You have absolutely zero prospect of surviving an event you will never live to see. 100% agreement on that. here is my reasoning on wt's weird world view according to their writings:
All members of the great crowd are Other Sheep (Earthly Hopers), but not all Other Sheep are members of the Great Crowd.
The Great Crowd comes out of the Great Tribulation, so exists only After Armageddon. Even Abel, the quintescential OS will only be resurrected in Paradise. so: Since
The wt "generation" is the anointed remnant, and the Other sheep by any definition exist only since John the Baptist , less than "the smallest in heaven"), There really is no great crowd now, only aspirants, while they still breathe. (pun intended). After all, they are supposed to say "Salvation we owe--" a fait accompli' -that's only for the ones that "endure to the [bitter] end".-- yet to come.--Now,
Do you want to introduce a tentative "Great Crowd Generation" starting in 1935 ? -- that would be great too, it would dovetail with our old wt teaching that the GT started in 1014, was interrupted in 1918, to allow the Great Crowd to get out of it (and her), and then only restart at Armageddon, soon, just around the corner.. so, 1935 is better than 1914, it would give us octogenarians a fighting chance. Too bad the Forward Fred Franz overlappers will last to ~ 2075. Might my reasoning be too simplistic?
TD: "God's infallible word depicts this group as 'coming out of the great tribulation,' being survivors of it, living right on into God's New Order without ever having to die. (Revelation. Do you see a difference between being a survivor and coming out of (without going into)?
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Another generation....
by joey jojo init has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?
the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.
the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.
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prologos
TD: I am a deist, and I too discuss these matter only to show the inconsistencies in wt theology. Their limiting the calling, assured salvation to the sealed anointed and that over the period of 2000 years, consigns the rest of mankind to be the earthly class, the OS, the 12 tribes over which the anointed will eventually rule. That the Great Crowd are the Other Sheep, is a flaky, latter day wt invention, for most scholars agree that the Other Sheep are the Gentile Christians that followed the pattern of Cornelius. or? TD, as you well said: ---technically JWs are only "prospective" members of the Great Crowd. so: the Great Crowd is not under the "this Generation" constraint. It will appear only after "all these things have occurred," whereas the anointed overlappers will be gone before all these things happen. That is where wt contradicts Jesus.