Posts by prologos

13

Was Judas present when the Emblems were passed? Who should partake?

by DATA-DOG in

wt 1/15/51 " the lord's evening meal.

8 mark's account agrees with matthew's above.

thus we have two writers as witnesses.

prologos

bobcat, you summed it up very well under:

FOR THE CUP for sin

FOR THE RULE different from new covenant.

This preoccupation with memorial attendance and partaker COUNTS is unique to JWs (although the Vatican has its devils advocates for sainthood proceedings too) but

it appears that now with the new partaker vs. FDS light, the bean counters at headquarters have less to worry about the billions that did or did not (rightly) take the emblems during the millenia, but can concentrate of the billions at hand (in the accounts)

16

Nearly all religions are just extortion rackets

by AntonyBaker in

jw
friends

christ was 50/50.

god lowered himself the most to become half man.

he saw himself in the girl.

prologos

Religions cater to our higher asperations the way a supermarkets to our hunger/appitites. particularly if they sell a-beverages.

like all tools, the crafty, able and ambitiously manipulative have found it well suited to serve their end.

wt no exception on all levels.

13

Baptism: Anointed Christian Ritual?

by Emery in

jw
friends

i read a couple of scriptures yesterday and realized that baptism-- its symbolism and ritual-- should only be practiced by the anointed per jw theology.

according to these 2 scriptures:.

1 cor 12:13 - "for we were all baptized by one spirit so as to form one body--whether jews or gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one spirit to drink.".

prologos

emery, I try to keep it simple for my mind's limitations. there were at least 2 baptisms before the command in Math:28, that of John and that of the disciples of Christ, at that time still locked in the earthly Israel kingdom hope.

Jesus commanded a baptism that seem to embrace all that and all his teachings, which had seeds of both earthly(material) and heavenly hope. (but no exclusive certainty)

Actual baptisms after pentecost varied, wether the person was Jewish, already baptized by John, by the disciples or a Gentile like Cornelius who was anointed even before his baptism.

After Cornelius (the first other sheep), there was only one anointed Christian congregation, the Israel of God. One valid baptism. all partakers. all in the New Covenant. but

within that spiritual nation where people of two destinies, according to god's choosing! for example: Peters waited - for ----New Heaven and New Earth.

There was also the SEALING of the future rulers with Christ OUT OF that congregation: starting with execution of Stephen and ending with the last martyr prior to Armageddon.;the sealing of the "axed" 144k.

I like to believe in I anointed congregation, I baptism, God (if any) looking at all that and making already described choices, sealed ones, firstfruits, heavenly rulers, temple foundations,

our trying to second - guess the creator on his part are power plays.

13

Baptism: Anointed Christian Ritual?

by Emery in

jw
friends

i read a couple of scriptures yesterday and realized that baptism-- its symbolism and ritual-- should only be practiced by the anointed per jw theology.

according to these 2 scriptures:.

1 cor 12:13 - "for we were all baptized by one spirit so as to form one body--whether jews or gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one spirit to drink.".

prologos

when Jesus gave the original baptism and teaching instructions, the disciples still had an earthly hope, were jewish all, and not yet anointed.

so technicly that package was the command to carry forward.

Jewish convert were baptized in the name of jesus only (being already into the Lord god the father).

So baptism preceded and followed anointing and was to be done to all.

Wt has turned this ritual into a induction ceremony, particularly with the latest wording, far removed from what jesus taught.

of course, slyly they do not deny the emblems, but the indoctrinate the R&F to pass,

drink the cool aid (not to "exercise faith") volontarily.

41

Having children is bad

by dissonance_resolved in

jw
friends

went to the weeknight meeting this week for the first time in a long while.

the study was all about how having children was ill-advised in this time of the end- the comments dwelled on what a burden children are, how you can spend more time in the ministry without children, and look what they did in jerusalem- they cannabilized their own children!

it's going to be so horrible to watch our children suffer during the great tribulation!

prologos

for generations overlapping backward into the past the wt mantra was: do not marry, if you marry dont have kids (they, or friends, put special pioneers in touch with free condom services for the poor). if you have kids, dont educate them because :

the end is ever nearer, and when it comes it will be terrible. true;

Jesus warned about the flight in the wintertime (with no de-icing service) but:

Paul in 2 Thess. 1: 6-10 has recorded that the Tribulation will suffered by only the opposers, unfaithful worldly. not christians.

BSW: The GT will be like the flood according to Jesus, Peter. How many single people survived that miraculous water rising? The three young couples did not have children, because in those day the youngest father clocked in at 120 years old, so they could not have kids perhaps even if they wanted too., not because the end was near, and to keep the ark diaper free.

for what its worth.

20

Is this their arguement?

by problemaddict in

i have had some "friendly" conversations with people on my coninuing fade journey.

i realize that isn't always wise, but they are all non-related to each other, and we keep it light.

even my brother got in the mix.

prologos

their Korah argument is fallacious is it not?, because this was rebellion. for the sake of power alone. but

The refusal to follow wrong orders, doctrine is approved by Christ:

consider the case of the few in the Thiatyra congregation Rev.2 that were uneffected by the jezebel influence and resisted the elder body and were singled out by Christ for approval.

Consider Paul resisting Peter publicly. even Mary did not mind as far as we know.

Most of the Hebr.11 cloud were dissidents.

yes we can.

13

Was Judas present when the Emblems were passed? Who should partake?

by DATA-DOG in

wt 1/15/51 " the lord's evening meal.

8 mark's account agrees with matthew's above.

thus we have two writers as witnesses.

prologos

.9 good argument. any eating would have fulfilled the prophecy.

11. --- not yet begotten can NOT be used as an argument---? sorry, -- YES WE CAN, because:

the cup of the NEW Covenant is not for the kingdom but for FORGIVENESS of sin in General. Jer.31 defines the New Covenant as such, as does John 6. further:

There is no biblical justification to persist talking about the "great crowd of other sheep." as was convincingly shown in other topics:

The other sheep are the gentile christians,

The great crowd are christians that have come OUT OF the great tribulation, i.e. that are living before the throne in the post - Armageddon era. will there be memorials then? Will Abraham have to partake to get everlasting life? Will Christ arrive one more time to make the final entries into the book of life AFTER THE FINAL TEST?

19

Platonic "Lunch"

by freeflyingfaerie in

jw
friends

age-old question.

complicated x1,000 if one or both of the persons is married/in a serious relationship.. i am skeptical.

very skeptical.

prologos

I am with caliber. if you value your marriage/partnership, any exclusive repeated direct interaction is not platonic.

The lunch counter of course is different from supper a deux in the dining room, not too far from the bedroom.

glander: if it were only plutonic (relating to plutocrats, money rule), it would be ok, but the couple in your good picture is infringing on Math 5:28. Jesus' non-platonic caveat.

New York 44 M: how to do you do [ guaranteed platonic ] business lunches with the opposite (or same) sex?

try always bringing along a trusted advisor.

good advise from all, if you really need it.

If you want to start friendships, go a less formal route, clubs, read the free events calender in your local newspaper.

Astronomy club (looking at heavenly bodies) with scopes.

13

What Are The Chances of Someone "Going Postal" At Bethel?

by frankiespeakin in

we all know that the governing body are playing a dangerous game with peoples lives.

getting people to devote their lives to the cause of the of the watchtower corporation and then finding out it was all a lie/delusion only to be even more mistreated by them if speak out about it.. i think it is a very dangerous situation they are in even right there at bethel, and here is why:.

as knowledge increases about the lies and underhandedness of the governing body and their cruel policies,, more and more people are begining to hate the governing body, the more likely that someone in their midst "going postal"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/going_postal).. i think the likelihood increases as the cruelty of the governing body increases.

prologos

we hope calmer hearts prevail in the "house of the Lord", but a greater danger is in the field, the assemblies. or when they share in the House to House ministry . It appears cecurity is dicreet* tight and restricted at assemblies. *f&Ds

as an analogy, there was a greater danger for officers in Vietnam to be "FRAGGED" * by the R&F than for the likes of Pr. Nixon or Pr. Johnson to be done in by the peace protesters.

similarly, in the wt org. those that implement these directives, or impose their own, that are unscriptural or abusive, --they are at much greater risk, at the mercy or the goodwill of their victims, really.

* the self-defensive practise by enlisted men to toss or roll the offending officer a live hand - (fragmentation) - grenade to end the abuse.

do not deprive those that have the right to judge of that privilege.

20

Is this their arguement?

by problemaddict in

i have had some "friendly" conversations with people on my coninuing fade journey.

i realize that isn't always wise, but they are all non-related to each other, and we keep it light.

even my brother got in the mix.

prologos

Allied interogators found that the nazis "managed" the population with a surprising low number of enforcers.

There was a lot of abuse of power by local authorities (equivalent to elders) under the feared preamble: "Fuehrerbefehl l!!!" (order of the Leader), even when no such order existed.

remember even in Israel true prophets were persecuted by invoking without autorization jehovah's name. 2 Chr. 18.

It is the ones actually the doing, the killing, the disfellowshipping, the curbing, the disparaging that have a personal choice, personal responsabilty and that put themselfs in line for the promised tit for tat judgement to come.

That is what the "more severe judgement" to come for abusers is about. Hebr.10:29

some Wt personell would be appalled to really know the damage that was, and is beeing, done by it's appointees. (not that the nazis cared, in the slugfest of ww2.)