I guess an Arkansan will have to help here. Back ur pickup into a dry ditch or low spot on ur property. Ur tailgate will be almost at ground level. This is the way many motorcycles are loaded into pickups without a ramp.
tms
Posts by TMS
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28Janitor question and the KH phone is busy
by garybuss inhow do i load a 20" floor buffer in the back of my pick up alone without killing my back?
serious question.
i just bought a buffer to use in refinishing some oak floors.
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11
Women's Place In Jehovah's Arrangement
by TMS in"i do not permit a woman to teach or to exercize authority over a man, but to be in silence.
" these inspired words are frequently quoted to help define the role of women among jehovah's witnesses.
then eve.
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TMS
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercize authority over a man, but to be in silence." These inspired words are frequently quoted to help define the role of women among Jehovah's Witnesses. The logic behind such a limitation applied to one sex is explained in the verse that follows: "For Adam was formed first. then Eve. (The logical extension of such reasoning would be to place Adam under the animal's supervision, since in relation to Adam they were "formed first". But before the animals get too big for their britches, they are newbies compared to green vegetation. Perhaps, the venus flytrap should be lord and master of all.)
Jehovah, the Great Anesthesiologist, put the first man into a deep sleep, pulled one of his ribs out and used that bone material to make the first woman. No forensic scientists had a chance to compare the DNA of the first couple, but Adam himself declared them a perfect match: "This is at last bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This one will be called Woman because from man this one was taken."
Jehovah adjusted the role of women after Adam and Eve sinned. Despite the fact that, according to Scripture, Eve was tricked and Adam was not tricked, Eve and all woman after her seemed to bear the brunt of Jehovah's harsh words: "I shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy. In birth pangs you will bring forth children and your craving will be for your husband and he will dominate you."
Wow! Jehovah doesn't care much for people who get tricked! Of course, Eve could only guess what increased birth pangs would be like since he had not as yet given birth. I'm a little confused though. Would man have dominated women if Eve had not allowed herself to get tricked? Is man's headship part of the punishment women receive because of the first woman being "thoroughly deceived" or was man's domination part of Jehovah's purpose all along? Anyway, Jehovah put the man who sinned intentionally in charge of the woman who was fooled into sinning.The perfect law Jehovah gave to his "name people" further helped women to understand their role more clearly. Natural functions like menstruation and childbirth actually made women "unclean". Should she give birth to another female, she would be unclean twice as long as she would giving birth to a male. To atone for her "uncleanness" she could slaughter a sheep and turtledove or pigeon and give it to Jehovah. If she was dirt poor, Jehovah would accept two dead turtledoves or pigeons. If a man suspected that the wife he married was not a virgin, her family had to bring proof of her virginity. If they could not, she was stoned to death. If a man hated his wife, he could divorce her, giving her a "certificate of divorce". If her new husband died, her first husband could not take her back. Jehovah said "no!". She was now "defiled".
All-wise Jehovah gives further instructions to deal with women in Numbers 5. If a husband merely suspects his wife of unfaithfulness, he may bring her before the priest. She is made to drink holy water mixed with dust from the floor and swear that she has been faithful. If she is lieing her belly swells and her "inner thigh" wastes away. The is no such test of unfaithfulness for the man.
Let's fastforward to modern times and the role of woman among JW's.
Although Jehovah's Witnesses view the Mosaic Law as "perfect", they are not bound by it. Christ "fulfilled the Law", they say. Still woman are to be subservient to men among JW's. "In turn the head of the woman is the man."(1 Cor.11:3) They have to "obey" their husbands. Even if a woman makes a foolish vow to Jehovah, her husband can anul it.JW woman are free to preach to the public. They do the majority of the public work. "The woman declaring the good news are a large army" is the verse the Watchtower loves to quote. Woman in the congregation are not exactly "silent" as the Bible recommends. They are permitted to comment. In 1958 it was announced at the international convention in NYC that woman would be given the opportunity of being in the Theocratic Ministry School, not giving talks to the audience, but "presentations" to other "sisters".
Occasionally, when no baptised males are present, a sister may be called upon to do something normally done by a male. This might be praying or conducting a meeting for service. In that case, she must wear a headcovering to show her submission. Many sisters carry a scarf or dinner napkin in their purses for that very purpose. If there is a 12 year old baptised boy present, there is no need for a head covering. The 12 year old officiates to the delight and relief of the woman present.
I have a 45 year old nephew who is severely retarded, but a devout servant of Jehovah. My sister-in-law coaches him each week to be able to read the day's text and lead the sisters in midweek field service. Many of the sisters have expressed to my nephew what a "blessing" it is to have him there midweek to "take the lead."
Sisters are free to join in congregational singing during meetings. Years ago, some even played piano to accompany the singers. That role has been replaced by a tape player.
Married sisters may serve at Bethel. Some secretarial roles are open, but usually taken by the wives of Bethel heavies. A newbie sister will likely be handed a toilet brush.
There are many opportunities in the congregation for sisters to use their cooking skills. Circuit overseers, visiting speakers and Kingdom Hall workers all need to be fed. In the case of a Kingdom Hall feeding, likely a sink will not be available. Casserole dishes, pots and pans will have to be taken back home and scrubbed.
Since sisters cannot serve as elders or ministerial servants, the most prestigious role in the congregation for a woman is being the wife of an elder. She possibly could simply marry an older man, a widower. Or she could take her chances with a younger man and develop him into an elder. Some sisters push their husbands into field service, write out their talks, press out their clothing and even conduct the family study.(The husband turns in the report, though, after his wife fills it out for him.) This can all pay off finally when hubby is appointed an elder.
An elder's wife is the envy of other sisters. She may be inconvenienced almost weekly when he has to stay after the meeting for an impromptu "short" elders meeting lasting 1-1/2 hours. After spending all day at the circuit assembly, she watches all the elders with their attache' cases file away to the elder's meeting with the circuit and district overseer. She is stuck in the main auditorium to meditate or keep the kids from killing each other. Other elder's wives congregate in little cliques while she waits another hour for her man.
Just a brief look at the role of women after the first one got tricked.tms
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53
Ever encounter gypsies?
by Gregor inthere is quite large community of them in this area.
the more you get to know them or deal with them the less you like them.
what a strange and ugly culture.
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TMS
Forty years ago I worked in a retail store. The owner was leary of gypsies as they had frequently left the store with items they had not paid for. Two particular gypsy girls I remember. They were masterful at diverting your attention. Flirtation, personal questions, questions about items not in stock. . . . . . . . These two girls even worked with a ventriloquist who made it seem that someone on the roof was asking for me by name to help him.
No ethnic disrespect here, just my personal recollection.
tms
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19
My personal proof elders are not spirit appointed
by stillajwexelder ini was congregation secretary.
all of us were against appointing a particular ms as elder despite the fact he had regular pioneered for 15 years.
the reason was he told crude jokes and all in the congregation knew it.
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TMS
stillajwexelder,
There have been a couple of power shifts in the last 30 years between the circuit overseers and the body of elders. Forty years ago, the circuit overseers simply made the recommendations. With the elder arrangement (introduced in 1971, implemented in 1972), the power briefly shifted. For a brief, heady time, the visiting circuit overseer was simply "another elder". That brief perestroika came with the research on the Aid book. After the Ray Franz DF-ing, things got hard and cold again.
I did a thread on this awhile back: "How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders" http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/143449/1.ashx
Since you mentioned circuit overseers, I will site one of my major pet peeves. The "Flock" book and elder manuals before that always described elder meetings as having an "agenda". It was to be issued before the meeting so no one came in flat footed. Each elder could prayerfully, scripturally consider each point. Circuit Overseers violate this principle almost routinely ramrodding their personal, pet issues through. One circuit overseer wanted a perfectly good Kingdom Hall remodeled. He "worked" with select brothers in field service, orchestrated the remodel down to the cost and specifics. Knowing that the Presiding Overseer at the time would be resistant to change, he first orchestrated a change in that position. The new PO was a heavy player in the "quick-build" program. So the majority of the body walked into an elder's meeting not knowing they would leave with a new PO and a tremendous remodel project to fund. It was all orchestrated in advance. I made what was viewed as a rebellious comment at that meeting. I suggested we leave the Kingdom Hall "as is" and donate the money we would have spent to build a dozen "third world" Kingdom Halls. If looks could kill! LOL!
tms
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71
What Movie Could You Watch Over and Over Again?
by Abandoned infor me, there are a number of movies that i never tire of.
here's a partial list:.
elfthe holidaytommy boyplanes trains and automobilesdumb and dumber28 dayswhat are yours?.
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TMS
Ordinary People. . . . . . . In The Heat Of The Night
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39
My Personal Proof That Elders Are Not Appointed by Holy Spirit
by TMS inthis topic is not about men living sinfully at the time of their appointment as elders.
it is not about pedophile elders, although i've personally known three, two who were pedophiles at the time of their appointment by the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.. first of all a quick summary of what jehovah's witnesses are taught about the appointment of elders and ministerial servants:.
before the visit of the circuit overseer, the local elders meet to consider who, if any, among the local congregation they will recommend as elders or .
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TMS
I believe that there is a lot of proof that appointments are not by Holy Spirit. It is only about the almighty "TIME IN FIELD SERVICE." It is currency by which appointments are made. It doesn't matter if you are a total doorknob or jerk, you will still be appointed as long as you suck up to the right people and have the right numbers.
JK666,
That is so well put, "the currency by which appointments are made". Traveling overseers are simply numbers men. A 10.1 beats an 8.6 every time. So many good men waste their lives chasing that retractable dangling carrot of "service privileges". So many wannabe elderesses drag their hubbies out into field service because of their ambitions, write their talks out, study with the kids. But that's another thread. LOL!
tms
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My Personal Proof That Elders Are Not Appointed by Holy Spirit
by TMS inthis topic is not about men living sinfully at the time of their appointment as elders.
it is not about pedophile elders, although i've personally known three, two who were pedophiles at the time of their appointment by the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.. first of all a quick summary of what jehovah's witnesses are taught about the appointment of elders and ministerial servants:.
before the visit of the circuit overseer, the local elders meet to consider who, if any, among the local congregation they will recommend as elders or .
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TMS
I realize that this is a dry topic, difficult to read. I simply wanted to document this incident and the way it was handled.
tms
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39
My Personal Proof That Elders Are Not Appointed by Holy Spirit
by TMS inthis topic is not about men living sinfully at the time of their appointment as elders.
it is not about pedophile elders, although i've personally known three, two who were pedophiles at the time of their appointment by the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.. first of all a quick summary of what jehovah's witnesses are taught about the appointment of elders and ministerial servants:.
before the visit of the circuit overseer, the local elders meet to consider who, if any, among the local congregation they will recommend as elders or .
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TMS
This topic is not about men living sinfully at the time of their appointment as elders. It is not about pedophile elders, although I've personally known three, two who were pedophiles at the time of their appointment by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
First of all a quick summary of what Jehovah's Witnesses are taught about the appointment of elders and ministerial servants:
Before the visit of the circuit overseer, the local elders meet to consider who, if any, among the local congregation they will recommend as elders or
ministerial servants. The meeting starts with a prayer asking for God's holy spirit to guide their deliberations. The scriptures dealing with the qualifications for these offices are read, usually 1 Peter 5:1-5, Titus 2:1-10 and 1 Timothy 3:1-13. These scriptual qualifications are said to be
the product of holy spirit, inspired by God like the rest of the Bible. At the meeting with the elders during the circuit overseer's visit, the local elders' recommendations are reviewed after a prayer asking for holy spirit. The finalized, agreed-upon recommendations are sent to the Society to be reviewed by the Governing Body (after prayer). Although, we later learned that a committee from the Service Department may have made the actual appointments, whatever was done was under the direction of the Gov-
erning Body. In due time, the appointments are received by the congregation body of elders. Before reading the appointment letter each prospective
appointee is asked privately if there is any reason why they cannot serve.
If not, there appointment is read at the congregation's service meeting.Through the above process or something similar, elders(and ministerial servants)
are said to be appointed by holy spirit.Now to my example.
In 1976 I was an elder in the very large Little Rock East Congregation. I was the Theocratic School Overseer and, by default the Congregation Secretary(no one else wanted that job). We had nine elders and recommended two more: George F. and Earl R. Both men seemed well qualified.
George, in his 30's was a married pioneer, articulate, reasonable, approachable. Earl was only 26, but mature beyond his years. He produced programs for Arkansas Public Television and had a small family.The Society's appointment letter came back with a green check by Earl's name and
a brief explanation for non-appointment next to George's name. In the explanation the Society(I still use that term) stated that George was still somewhat young and had been baptised only a short time. In actuality, George was 7 or 8 years OLDER than Earl and baptised longer. It was an obvious error.Now, what to do? The body of elders was not inclined to do anything, just leave the appointments as they were in spite of the obvious error. I learned that they were afraid the letter was sent back, Earl's appointment would be undone. He was the local man and like the majority, black. George, although liked, was a move-in and white.
This obvious injustice was upsetting to me. I did not approach the body of elders. I already sensed their inclination. As secretary, I approached the other two service committee members. They acquiesced to a letter being sent if I would write it. I drafted the letter and presented it to the body as simply an inquiry. No huge objections were voiced and the letter was sent.
Basically, the letter to the Society stated:
You appointed Earl R. You did not appoint George F., stating that he was somewhat young and had been baptised a relatively short time. May we point
out that Brother Earl R. is younger than Brother George F. has been baptised
a shorter period. Did you intend to appoint Brother F. and not Brother R.?
How should we proceed?I was interested in how the Society would respond. Would they simply admit an error? What explanation would be given? As a true believer, I was interested in
their response.In a few weeks a new appointment letter was received. There was absolutely no explanation. There simply a green check beside George F.'s name. Both men were appointed.
This whole episode rattled my theocratic cage, but not enough to more closely
scrutinize my religion.As I look back, this was simply one of many signs I ignored that I was involved in a very
human operation. No holy spirit directed anything.tms
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85
Elder asks me why we quit... (Long)
by Odrade inin this thread i mentioned having a long chat with an elder last summer.
i didn't realize i had never posted the story, so here it is.. last summer (when i went to buy my new camera lens) i ran into one of my favorite jws at the photography shop.
he was buying a camera bag for his new dslr, and i saw him, went up and greeted him, hugged him.
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TMS
odrade,
Well-reasoned responses, odrade. . . . . Personal integrity as a reason for departure is not what JW's want to hear. Being stumbled, a secret sin, discouragement or depression are sicknesses that can be treated with a myriad of JW cliche's. To say that the religion is a lie puts you on death row without possibility of parole. You would have to admit that you are the liar, not Jehovah's name people to ever be accepted back.
The elder gave it his best shot. He had the burden of proof, not you. The cell phone call rescued him from an uncomfortable situation. Anger caused him to handle his departure less graciously than normal. He should at least call you back and apologize for his curt departure.
tms
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29
The Retractable Dangling Carrot
by TMS insome scattered thoughts about the granting or denial of privileges of service as a control mechanism:.
this method of persuasion involving reward or punishment is so deeply ingrained in watchtower function, it is second nature.
although sometimes subtle, sometimes blatant, everyone from new bible study to traveling overseer is subconsciously aware of the possible limiting of his official opportunities to serve god and his brothers.. .
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TMS
I wonder if the carrot is still dangled in 2008.