Posts by tonyend

4

More UN NGO connections

by hungarian xjw in

jw
friends

here http://www.unhchr.ch/huridocda/huridoca.nsf/0/66cf0523c6217c4b802567cc002f8b0e?opendocument

find this:

10. the following other non-governmental organizations were represented by observers: ... association of jehovah's witnesses ... jehovah's witnesses for the protection of religious freedom ...

tonyend

hmmm...I see the date on that document is 24 June 1999 so this was before the WTBTS disassociated themselves as an NGO, right?

10

Kentucky presiding overseers obfuscate facts in print

by Gopher in

here's a puff-piece in the danville, kentucky, usa newspaper.

it looks like it was written by a public relations representative of the wts and published word-for-word.

the news was that a spanish congregation has been added.

tonyend

Uhrig stressed that the church does not "force people not to vote or not to join the military."

"We are not some subversive organization," he said. "We have our beliefs, but it is up to each Witness how he or she will follow those beliefs."

Did presiding overseer Uhrig really say that JW's can vote and join the military, and that it's up to them? Could this be...... theocratic warfare??

The key phrase is "it is up to each Witness how he or she will follow those beliefs". What they mean by this is they don't force you not to vote, but by your voting you are disassociating yourself because of your actions. They say the same thing regarding blood transfusions or joining another church. This is how they can say that they don't force you by threat of disfellowshipping. It is by your actions that you disassociate yourself. That's all part of the legalistic word game they play.

21

E-watchman is not disfellowshipped!?

by Noumenon in

i note that e-watchman has just confirmed that he is not disfellowshipped, despite running an 'apostate' website and having sent 1000's of letters around the us, canada, and bethels around the world.

this from his latest mailbag questions and answers:.

"as for any judicial action taken against me, no, there was none.

tonyend

He, like me, knows the rules under which they operate and hence, as long as he plays the game, he's not df'd. The elders knew I was going to another church (Bible Students aka "Evil Slave Class") but told me not to spread it in the congregation. No action was taken against me. Since they're very legalistic you have to break one of the rules in the Pay Attention to the Flock book before they're forced into action. I got the impression they'd just prefer to not be involved since it could make the issue bigger and cause others to look into things out of curiosity. Also, it helped that I always had a good relationship with them before I left I think. I had no problems with the elders. I just woke up one day and realized that it wasn't for me.

3

A college paper an aquantance is turning in...

by tonyend in

here is a college paper that a friend of a friend is turning in for her sociology class: .

a sociologist by the name of peter burger says that the sociological perspective can be described as "seeing the strange in the familiar.

" as sociologists there main goal is to understand the social situations and look for a repeating patterns in society.

tonyend

Here is a college paper that a friend of a friend is turning in for her Sociology class:

A Sociologist by the name of Peter Burger says that the sociological perspective can be described as "Seeing the strange in the familiar." As sociologists there main goal is to understand the social situations and look for a repeating patterns in society. Sociologist have a main focus is in the groups not the individual. Sociologist wants to learn more about what forces that operate throughout the society. In this assignment you will see the things that sociologist would focus.
When I rode on the Metromover you would see a lot of people waiting for the ride as well. You would see all different types of people an example, would be the students, Doctors, Lawyers, other types of workers. As a sociologist you would see them a as a large crowd instead of as individuals. Many of these people are always interacting with other groups. They are consider as being very sociable within the groups. We could come to the point of that everyone is engaged in the study of sociology in some ways. They are also others groups of people who are not that sociable with there surrounds. Some of them are very quite people. They donâ??t like speaking to other people unless, they actually have too. An example, would be if you want to get off the next train and there a person in front of you. You would ask them politely to let you go by in front of them. If though some are not that way but at least they communicated in a another form of way.

When you are walking in the city of DownTown, you get to experience a little bit of everything. As you can see some people can interact then, on the other hand you have people that will interact with they need something. In the city as well you see these behaviors often then in other cases you see people that have disturbing behavior meaning that they are crazy. Some of them like forming problems in large crowds, making a scene in a public place. I have experienced these kind of things, you would just have to leave them alone. Sometimes when I would ride the train that would happen sometimes the person would start saying things that wouldnâ??t make up any sense until the train made it to there stop they wouldnâ??t sometimes it got really annoying. Being a sociologist you would have to deal with all sorts of behavior at a time. Trying to understand there repeating pattern in the behaviors.

Another group of people that would get to experience is the group of people who are always rude. We all have experienced a group of rude people at some point of our lifes. You would see it the places that you go too an example, BaySide Market Place, or the shopping stores in downtown. Some of the groups of people donâ??t know the meaning of having tact in a large crowd. They like being rude to other people without having a reason. Many people have experienced that to a point that as person you would be treat them the same way as well. You treat people how they treat you back and thatâ??s something that you see in everyday life. In doing this assignment I got experiences different things. Sociology is basically used as an everyday life.

She?s been going to city college for 5 years. Her major is English and she wants to be an English teacher!

Any thoughts?

7

TBN Scandal - Will they use this at the door?

by tonyend in

there's a tbn scandal brewing: http://www.latimes.com/news/yahoo/la-me-lonnie12sep12,1,6097173.story?coll=la-newsaol-headlines .

in the past this would've been used by jw's in the ministry and from the stage to point out how all chirstendom is corrupt.

now, given the recent pedophile issue with the wt, do you think they'll use this?

tonyend

Televangelist Paul Crouch Attempts to Keep Accuser Quiet * A former worker at TBN threatened to disclose an alleged 1996 homosexual encounter. By William Lobdell, Times Staff Writer Televangelist Paul Crouch, founder of the world's largest Christian broadcasting network, has waged a fierce legal battle to prevent a former employee from publicizing allegations that he and Crouch had a sexual encounter eight years ago. Crouch, 70, is the president of Trinity Broadcasting Network, based in Orange County, whose Christian programming reaches millions of viewers around the world via satellite, cable and broadcast stations. The source of the allegations against him is Enoch Lonnie Ford, who met Crouch at a TBN-affiliated drug treatment center in 1991 and later went to work for the ministry. After Ford threatened to sue TBN in 1998, claiming that he had been unjustly fired, Crouch reached a $425,000 settlement with him. In return, Ford agreed, among other things, not to discuss his claim about a sexual encounter with the TV preacher. But in the last year, Ford has threatened to go public with his story, prompting a flurry of legal maneuvers ? conducted in closed court hearings, sealed pleadings and private arbitration. In court papers, Crouch has denied the allegations, and ministry officials have described Ford ? who has a history of drug problems and has served time for a sex offense ? as a liar and an extortionist. At stake are the public image of one of the world's most successful televangelists and, potentially, the fortunes of the broadcasting empire that Crouch and his wife, Jan, built over the last 31 years. TBN and Crouch went on the legal offensive after they learned that Ford had written a book manuscript that included an account of the alleged sexual encounter. In a dramatic flourish, Ford had appeared at a TBN broadcast studio in Costa Mesa, minutes before the start of a "Praise-a-thon" fundraiser, and, without comment, handed Crouch a copy of the manuscript Ford's lawyer later told ministry officials that they could keep the work out of public view by buying the rights. After some discussion, he suggested that $10 million might be a reasonable price. While negotiations continued, Crouch sued to enforce the 1998 secrecy agreement and obtained a restraining order barring Ford from seeking a publisher for his book. Orange County Superior Court Judge John M. Watson also granted Crouch's request to conduct the case in secret, sealing all documents and expunging any mention of the suit from public court records. Both sides eventually agreed to let a private arbitrator decide the matter. In June, the arbitrator ruled that Ford could not publish the manuscript without violating the 1998 settlement ? an act that could subject him to monetary damages. This account of the controversy is drawn from interviews with friends of Ford's, unsealed court records, correspondence among TBN lawyers and a copy of the arbitrator's confidential ruling. The arbitrator's decision contains details about the 1998 settlement and Ford's manuscript ? both of which are under seal. Records and interviews show that even as they battled to keep Ford's story from leaking, TBN lawyers worried that details would eventually come out. "I am absolutely amazed that Lonnie hasn't gone to Penthouse or Dianne [sic] Sawyer with his manuscript, notwithstanding the [judge's] injunction," TBN attorney Dennis G. Brewer Sr. wrote in a March letter to the network's other lawyers. In a subsequent letter, in May, Brewer mentioned the anguish that Ford's accusations had caused Crouch's youngest son, Matt, when he learned of them in 1998. Brewer wrote that the younger Crouch had told his then-law partner, David Middlebrook: "I am devastated; I am confronted with having to face the fact that my father is a homosexual." Middlebrook and Matt Crouch have denied that there was such a conversation. Millions of Viewers Paul and Jan Crouch started TBN in 1973, using a rented studio in Santa Ana. Over the next three decades, they built a worldwide broadcasting network by buying TV stations and negotiating deals with cable systems and satellite companies. Today, TBN's 24-hour-a-day menu of sermons, faith healing, inspirational movies and other Christian fare reaches millions of viewers from Spain to the Solomon Islands. Paul Crouch is the driving entrepreneurial force behind the network and one of its most popular on-air personalities. He and Jan, his wife of 46 years, have cultivated a folksy on-screen image as a devoted couple. TBN officials have long been concerned about how Ford's allegations could affect the network, which relies heavily on donations from viewers. Officials said they were particularly worried about possible comparisons to the scandal that brought down televangelist Jim Bakker in 1987. Bakker resigned from his PTL Ministries in 1987 after admitting to paying a secretary $265,000 in ministry funds to be silent about an earlier affair. Bakker later went to prison for bilking donors. TBN officials said they were careful not to pay Ford with ministry funds in 1998. They declined to say whether the money came from an insurer, Crouch personally or some other source. Ford, 41, said he could not discuss his manuscript or his allegations against Crouch but he did provide basic facts about his background and his time at TBN. Ford, whose father and grandfather were ministers, grew up in Fairfax County, Va., moved to California in 1989 and worked in a string of jobs that included jewelry salesman, produce clerk and gas station attendant. For years, he struggled to kick a cocaine habit. In 1991, he checked into a Christian drug treatment program in Colleyville, Texas, on a TBN-owned ranch. It was there that Ford met Crouch. In 1992 the network hired him to work on a phone bank in Orange County. Ford said he also ran errands for the Crouches and drove Paul Crouch to appointments. Ford repeatedly ran into trouble with the law, but TBN stood behind him. In 1994, he pleaded no contest in San Bernardino County to having sex with a 17-year-old boy and served six months in jail, according to court records. TBN took him back after his release. In 1995, he pleaded guilty in Orange County to possession of cocaine and served about 30 days in County Jail. Again, TBN took him back. Lake Arrowhead Cabin The alleged sexual encounter between Ford and Crouch occurred in the fall of 1996, according to Sandi Mahlow, a Tustin housewife who met Ford in a Fullerton church 10 years ago and became a close friend. Mahlow, 50, who helped Ford write his manuscript, said he broke down in tears after returning from a weekend spent alone with Crouch at a TBN-owned cabin near Lake Arrowhead. Mahlow said Ford told her that he and Crouch had engaged in sexual acts. "Lonnie had a lot of bad traits; one thing he isn't, and that's a liar," Mahlow said. She said she helped Ford with his manuscript for no pay, as a favor to a friend, and has no financial interest in the book. After the alleged encounter, Ford continued to work at TBN. For a time, he lived rent-free in an apartment at the network's Tustin headquarters, according to Mahlow and another friend of Ford's, Diane Benson, who met him at an Anaheim church 14 years ago. A third friend of Ford's said that in October 1996, about the time of the alleged Arrowhead encounter, ministry officials gave her a $12,000 check to pay back money Ford owed her. The woman spoke on condition that she not be named, saying she feared retaliation. TBN officials acknowledged that the ministry paid some of Ford's debts. They said the network commonly extends such generosity to employees in financial trouble. Within weeks of the Arrowhead trip, Ford tested positive for drug use and was arrested for violating terms of his probation. While Ford awaited sentencing, the ministry again came to his support, urging the judge not to impose more prison time. Ford "has continuously shown a very positive attitude regarding whatever we have asked him to do," wrote Ruth M. Brown, Paul Crouch's sister and TBN's director of personnel. "He carried out his duties cheerfully and always tries to do more than asked." The judge sent Ford to the California Rehabilitation Center in Norco, a drug treatment facility in the state prison system. In August 1997, Jay Jones, TBN's director of telephone ministry, wrote prison officials that Ford would have a job with the network after he got out, despite his "extended leave of absence." But Ford said that after he was released in February 1998, he was told he no longer had a position at TBN. "There comes a point in time when you have to say, 'Enough is enough,' " said John Casoria, a TBN lawyer who is a nephew of the Crouches. Ford responded with his threat to sue. The settlement followed. Despite TBN's efforts to keep Ford's charges secret, they surfaced in an unrelated 1998 lawsuit. A former bodyguard for TBN personality Benny Hinn testified in a deposition that during a European bus tour that year, Hinn had told a group of associates about "a sexual relationship that Paul Crouch had with his chauffeur." The witness, Mario C. Licciardello, quoted Hinn as saying: "Paul's defense was that he was drunk." Hinn and six others mentioned by Licciardello, who died in 2000, told The Times that Hinn never made such remarks. However, Rick Jones, a retired police officer and ordained minister who worked for Hinn, said he heard Hinn talk about Crouch's alleged homosexual relationship on that bus. Jones said he was disgusted by the talk and "got up and walked away. I didn't want to hear gossip." Asking $10 Million Meanwhile, Ford began to have second thoughts about keeping silent. Last year, with Mahlow's help, he wrote his manuscript, titled "Arrowhead." Friends said Ford wanted to expose what he viewed as Crouch's hypocrisy. They said he also needed money and hoped to earn some by selling the manuscript. It's unclear how Ford spent his 1998 settlement, but today he leads a modest existence, living in a room of a Lake Forest home and working as a mortgage salesman. Ministry officials learned of the book in April 2003, when Ford walked onto the set of TBN's Costa Mesa broadcast studio and handed a copy of the manuscript to Crouch. Ford's attorney, Eugene Zech, said that Brewer, the TBN lawyer, called him the next business day. In court papers, Zech said that Brewer asked "if Ford might be willing to accept $1 million in exchange for the manuscript." Zech said in the court filing that he suggested $10 million. When the parties went to arbitration, Crouch's lawyers argued that publication would violate the 1998 settlement and cause irreparable damage to Crouch's reputation. Ford's lawyers argued that the secrecy agreement was overly broad and violated his free-speech rights. Arbitrator Robert J. Neill ruled that Ford's right to make his allegations public "was sold to [Crouch] for $425,000." Ford "bargained away his right to speak on certain matters and now suggests that his right to free speech trumps that bargain?. [His] right to discuss these matters was bought and paid for. He relinquished that right." Paul Crouch Jr., a TBN executive and the televangelist's oldest son, said that despite the favorable ruling, he wished his father had never entered into the settlement with Ford. Crouch said advisors persuaded his father that it would be cheaper to settle than to litigate. He said TBN was particularly anxious to avoid negative publicity because the ministry was celebrating its 25th anniversary that year. "In hindsight, we should have fought Lonnie tooth and nail," the son said in an interview. "We should have drawn the battle lines right there."

7

TBN Scandal - Will they use this at the door?

by tonyend in

there's a tbn scandal brewing: http://www.latimes.com/news/yahoo/la-me-lonnie12sep12,1,6097173.story?coll=la-newsaol-headlines .

in the past this would've been used by jw's in the ministry and from the stage to point out how all chirstendom is corrupt.

now, given the recent pedophile issue with the wt, do you think they'll use this?

tonyend

There's a TBN scandal brewing: http://www.latimes.com/news/yahoo/la-me-lonnie12sep12,1,6097173.story?coll=la-newsaol-headlines . In the past this would've been used by JW's in the ministry and from the stage to point out how all Chirstendom is corrupt. Now, given the recent pedophile issue with the WT, do you think they'll use this?

12

Why am I being haunted by JWs??????????

by little1 in

jw
friends

in my 46 years i have known a lot of people.

only one time did i become involved with a jw-and that for 3 years.

since we broke up i find myself constantly confronted with them in both my personal and professional life and i can't figure out why.

tonyend

It's Jehovah's loving provision for you!

21

JW Connections guy looking for a 10

by tonyend in

below is an email from an acquantance who has a profile on jw connections.

i've edited out her name in order to protect the innocent.

i have a profile in jw connections right, i think i told you this a while back.

tonyend

Below is an email from an acquantance who has a profile on JW Connections. I've edited out her name in order to protect the innocent.

> > Hello, XXXX

> >

> > What is your opinion of Oriental people?

> >

> > How do you and other people rate your physical appearance from 0-10 out of a scale of 10 [higher number means better appearance].

After i saw his profile and read what he was looking for.....i was like OMG, i think i even sent you his profile so you could laugh at is his profile and what he wants in a girl lololol, this is his profile just in case:

http://www.jwconnections.com/index.php?page=view_profile&id=5487

Sooooooooo i wrote him this:

im a 10.....and you NEED mental HELP ASAP...dont write back...more like "get HELP" and quick

LMAO..... and he wrote back this, which is totally gonna crack you up:

: XXXX

Date: XX Aug 2004 22:17

Subject: NO NEED !!!

Message:

XXXX, you would be less than 10 with your mental attitude.

I DO NOT need mental help at all, I am mentally sound.

Do not be rude, again.

â??NO NEED FOR HELPâ?

No need to rush.

---

You should not have rudely sent a slanderous message to me.

Unrepentantly slandering others can lead to disfellowshipping.

I have the ?power" to disfellowship anyone who unrepentantly slanders others.

The faithful slave class says that it is immature and childish to look down on others.

It is unchristian to be taking the initiative to be outright rude.

Therefore you must personally and humbly and sincerely apologise to me for sending me an outright slanderous message.

And if you, unrepentantly donâ??t apologise or unrepentantly sends me again rude and slanderous message[s], then you should know that you should be disfellowshipped for unrepentant slander.

If you are a Christian, then you should learn to always sincerely respect others, even if they have different viewpoints.

Sorry if I sounded not too polite [see, I demonstrated just now to you, how to humbly and sincerely apologise, and you should do the same to me].

LMAO can you belive him lmao lmao lmao.....thats so frekaing funny man lololololololololololololol........what do you think i should write back to him.....come on your good with words n all that......what should i write back to him lmao lmao lmao

1. What do you think of this guys' profile?

2. How would you reply to him?

Edited to make link 'clickable' ~ Scully

32

JW's and interracial marriage?

by c.dawn in

my nephew a jw who is white is dating another jw who is black with the intent to announce their engagement soon.. i had been reading about the past history of the jw's opinion of the black race.

old writings that said they were gods people too, but not intelligent as white etc and not qualified intellectually to go door to door to teach etc.that all people would be white in the new system.. i had read of a rope being run down the pews of the fellowship halls to separate the races during services during the 50's early 60's at the halls that did allow intergrated services... this was supposed to have taken place even up to a few years after de-segregation in the schools and other public places took effect.. that in some areas they had their own hall to meet at and the whites had theirs.

at one point the members of the black hall had asked to meet at the white hall as their building was being repaired or soemthing and they were told no, that some of the members of the white hall wouldn't understand or approve.. and i read that even up into the late 90's, many black members still weren't being given postions or responsibilities that whites had held since the beginning of the jw's.. i was just wondering how far they've come along to improve this image and if anyone knows thier opinion of interracial marriages.

tonyend

I'm a black man married to a white woman and had no problems with that in my predominantly black congregation. However, in my first congregation, before I was married, I was one of 4 blacks in an ~80 person hall in an afluent area. Once, at the meeting for service, the elder didn't want me to work with another black brother who had studied with me and paired me with a white older sister because it was a rich area and he felt it wouldn't be good (he actually said that). I was new at the time (1989 or 1990) so didn't think too much of it but the other brother was pissed. Also, I got counseled because of my short hair. They also counseled my cousin several times about his short hair when he came to visit me from out of town. The funny thing is that the elders in my cousin's hall (a mostly black hall) thought his haircut was a good example for other young ones. So, the upshot is that although there is no practiced racism, I think that there are congregations in more afluent areas that, because they aren't exposed to other races much, feel threatened when they get people who don't conform to the "WASP" mentality. Since I've left that congregation, there's now more chocholate in the milk so it's better. ;-)

11

United Nations

by CakeMonkey in

can someone give me the backstory to the united nations thing?

all i know is that the jdubs believe the un to be part of revelations.

i read the long post earlier about the letter from the un, but i don't understand the significance.

tonyend

To add to what's been said, in addition to calling the UN the Wild Beast led by Satan, the WT Society has said the UN will destroy all false religion, then will make an attempt to destroy JW's at which point Jehovah via Jesus Christ will step in and destroy this system-of-things (Armageddon). So you see, according to the WT Society, the UN as an agent of Satan is evil. So why would they go to Satan's organization to get a library card? Hence, the hyprocrasy.