Hi Grunt,
You don't post that often but when you do it's worth it. Some serious comment there. I enjoyed it, though that's probably the wrong thing to say about such a tragic loss of life. Your post takes the biscuit - cookie to you.
Trevor
Posts by trevor
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11Six things Jehovah hates; yes, seven
by Grunt in1. lofty eyes -.
february 15,.
1991, watchtower article you were bought with a price.
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70
Jehovah's day will come as a thief in the night
by spectromize init's true!
many of you here who scoff at the battle of armaggedon being a reality are in for a big surprise.
it will be a fear inspiring day in which there will only be one side that will survive.
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trevor
JT
An excellent post. I remember it well I was a pioneer at the time. The urgency theme was powerful stuff - sold my car in 1974 during the British petrol crisis and took up cycling - pedaling the word. Thought the end was nigh. Fell out of bed and woke up!
Trevor
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22
Grounds for Disfellowshipping?
by eyes_opened inhey all,.
i'm sure this topic has probably been covered before, but as i'm in this situation now i'm hoping maybe you can offer your thoughts.. i'm just curious, what are actually grounds for disfellowshipping?.
i'm to the point where i no longer believe that jehovah's witnesses have the truth, but if at all possible i want to avoid the big *d* word, as most of my family and my husbands family are still jehovahs witnesses.
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trevor
Hi eyes-open,
The above people have given some good advice and there is not much to add except it is best to keep a low profile and say nothing that can be used against you. You could just say you are suffering from stress and need a break. To fully understand how the judicial process of the elders works it is best to read 'Alice's Evidence' from her Adventures in Wonderland. I have included a brief exert here:
"Well, I sha'n't go, at any rate," Said Alice: "besides, that's not a regular rule: you invented it just now." "It's the oldest rule in the book," said the King. " Then it ought to be number one," said Alice. The King turned pale, and shut his note-book hastily. "Consider your verdict," he said to the jury, in a low trembling voice…"No, no! said the Queen. "Sentence first - verdict afterwards." "Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice loudly. The idea of having the sentence first!" "Hold your tongue! Said the Queen, turning purple. "I won't!" said Alice. " Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.
" Who cares for you? Said Alice - You're nothing but a pack of cards!"
At this the whole pack rose in the air, and came flying down upon her; she gave a little scream, half of fright and half of anger, and tried to beat them off, and found herself lying on the bank, with her head in the lap of her sister, who was gently brushing away some dead leaves that had fluttered down from the trees upon her face. "Wake up, Alice dear!" said her sister. " Why what a long sleep you've had!" "Oh I've had such a curious dream!" said AliceTrevor
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14
Is it just me?
by mommy ini have noticed we have several "active" jws on this board, and some of their comments really bother me.. when i was active, when the wtbts said "don't associate with apostates or worldly people" i didn't.
when they said "spend more time in the ministry" i went to school, held down a job.
and aux.
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trevor
Hi mommy/Wendy,
No I don' think its just you. The whole WT outfit has been watered down. Whatever happened to three scripture sermons followed by the three-book offer, which I was proficient at when I was nine! Pre-group ministry. Longer meetings. Three-day Circuit assemblies down to one day. My brothers and me were dragged round the doors for ten hours a week, because the end was so close of course. The Bethel Boppers are now producing books, which look like children picture books; they are easier to sell to the developing countries that are supplementing the Jehovah's Witness numbers
Even the dress code has gone down the toilet. I remember a neighbouring congregation visiting us to play football and have a picnic. The elders all wore suits and ties to show the worldlings who wandered by that God's people were special. Certainly different! This was the UK mind you - the empire mentality.
Oh the Glory days!
Trevor
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Are Kingdom Songs Good for You?
by Englishman ini have a little theory buzzing around in the back of my mind.
it was triggered by trevors comments re the low self esteem that is endured by many jw youngsters.. i`m wondering if the singing of kingdom songs can actually make you feel depressed and worthless.
i know it might seem a strange idea at first, but see if my reasoning doesn`t make at least some sense.. i frequently see the tv ad for linguaphone, the language learning course, that uses your repetition of foreign language phrases spoken along with a cassette recording.
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trevor
Englishman,
A great post. The subliminal, hypnosuggestic impact of that kind of brainwashing is very disturbing. The fear factor in keeping members in line is the hallmark of a cult.After all my years lost in the forest I still didn't fully realize quite how blatant the conditioning really was.
Trevor
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Are Kingdom Songs Good for You?
by Englishman ini have a little theory buzzing around in the back of my mind.
it was triggered by trevors comments re the low self esteem that is endured by many jw youngsters.. i`m wondering if the singing of kingdom songs can actually make you feel depressed and worthless.
i know it might seem a strange idea at first, but see if my reasoning doesn`t make at least some sense.. i frequently see the tv ad for linguaphone, the language learning course, that uses your repetition of foreign language phrases spoken along with a cassette recording.
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trevor
Yes Englishman,
As laughter is good for you so are the kingdom songs, especially when played on an out of tune piano by a zealous, poor-sighted, one-fingered pianist. I lost count of the number of times we broke down laughing half way through a tortured song.
As a teenager I was intrigued by the song that told us to be careful where we spread our seeds lest Satans birds would snatch them away. I cannot put in print what thoughts went through my mind as the young sisters strained to give voice to these delightful lyrics.
Trevor
Spell check
Edited by - trevor on 16 February 2001 8:44:49
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95
Do Kids Hate Being JW`s?
by Englishman inmy kid brother, tom, was born to witness parents.
he was something of a surprise package and my parents were delighted.
my father said that tom was:.
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trevor
Hi, Happytobefree, Thank you for your kind remarks - also Mommy and Englishman.
You mentioned how hard you find it to leave the past behind, that you were afraid of success and asked how others cope. We have to be aware of what has been programmed into our mind, not just our thinking mind but our emotional mind. There is really no such thing as fear of success, it is just fear of failure with another hat on. People fear failure, so they avoid taking on new challenges and in doing so hand themselves a guarantee of failure by not even starting.
Fearing that they will not be able to cope with success or the successful people they will meet as a result they conclude that they are afraid of success. Firstly you have to define your idea of success. To one person it is climbing Everest. To another driving a Cadillac with $5,000,000 in the bank. To another it is raising a large family. Famous people that succeed do so because they love what they do. Those that are earning top money in pressured jobs that they don't enjoy are usually working towards early retirement or more likely early death.
Be totally honest with yourself and ask what you want to spend the rest of your life doing, achieving. When you are absolutely sure then start working towards that goal one day at a time. I it is something you love, you will be good at it and success will be automatic as you harness all the posive forces of nature onto your side. Maybe those jobs you turned down offered money, status, travel but if they weren't what you wanted to be doing then your emotional mind would experience fear. Many challenges cause fear but successful people overcome that fear because their love for what they do is greater than the fear of change.
Frank Sinatra spent many of his early years being physically sick before going on stage but overcame it. At 80 he was fabulously wealthy and had no need to work but carried on because he loved what he did. All successful people follow the same pattern. When you find what you really want to do then you only fear will be that you will be held back from doing it.
I think it is important to never leave negative feelings unattended. Acknowledge them, examine them and then find a way of approaching the situation positively. This honest approach can be applied to any situation. Find the cause of the unwanted feeling, and then deal with it. Most apprehension is caused by a fear of other people due to our conditioning as Witnesses. If you deal with the people you fear in a positive way and your fear will evaporate.
In a way being brought up a Witnesses has its advantages, it gives you an insight that give you an advantage. Most people play out the scrip they were given at birth if it is half reasonable. The extreme nature of a Witnesses upbringing causes many to reject all they have ever looked to for security. If you can do that you can do anything. The act of clearing out the mind and refilling it with the beliefs we rationally choose, expands and opens us up to reality in a way that very few people ever have to do. It equips us for living fully on our terms because we have already tried the alternative as Witnesses.
I say all this to make my point that ex-Witnesses are better equipped to succeed than most. Don't undervalue your self or underestimate what you have achieved already. You have proved that you are a survivor. Sorry to rattle on for so long - but you did ask!
All the best
Trevor
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70
Jehovah's day will come as a thief in the night
by spectromize init's true!
many of you here who scoff at the battle of armaggedon being a reality are in for a big surprise.
it will be a fear inspiring day in which there will only be one side that will survive.
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trevor
Hi spectromize,
"The world empire of false religion along with the unrighteous wicked people of this wicked system of things will see God's wrath. Much blood has been spilled on the earth because of the wickedness of the devil and his seed and there is an accounting before God for all this wickedness."
Are we to understand that this vengeful, angry God of wrath (hardly the fruits of the spirit) is going to shed even more blood than Satan. If all non- Witnessses are killed of at Armageddon by your bloodthirsty God, then 99.9% of mankind will perish. Who will punish this genocidal maniac, that you call a God of love, for his wickedness?
Could not an almighty God resolve the problems of puny man without resorting to slaughter. As he is supposed to have created man, woman and the Devil one would assume he shared some of the responsibility for the mess he has made of things. If mass murder is the only solution man has enough powerful weapons to destroy humans without God's help. Man holds back from doing so, because with all his faults, he realizes that to selectively destroy whole populations that do not conform, would be an evil act.
I know you will tell me that we deserve to die if we do not believe that the Watchtower prints the truth, and follow the Bethal Boppers. I guess you have a point. Such free thinking is a serious crime that deserves the death penalty.
Trevor
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95
Do Kids Hate Being JW`s?
by Englishman inmy kid brother, tom, was born to witness parents.
he was something of a surprise package and my parents were delighted.
my father said that tom was:.
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trevor
Children of the Witnesses are forbidden access to many of the self-esteem enhancing activities that are open to other children. They are brought up to believe that they are different and separate from the world. They do not fully integrate with their schoolmates or teachers, due to their resistance to being fully involved with the education process, and their training to avoid forming friendships with worldly people.
More so than other children, their main security comes from winning the approval of their parents. They find that to win this approval they must do whatever the Society and their parents tell them will win Jehovah God's approval. I was told, by my own parents that if I ever left the religion they would never talk to me again. If I were to ever marry outside the religion the same penalty would apply. Although these threats are not always carried out, the Witness child grows up believing that the continuation of their whole world depends upon gaining their parents approval.
In addition to this pressure to conform, is the threat that God himself will kill the child, if he or she should go against their parent's wishes. The child is also puzzled by the parent's willingness to lose them in this way and often concludes that the parents do not love him or her. How can they threaten a child they love in this way, or say that the God they love may kill their child? As a child I concluded that I meant very little to my parents. Not all Witness parents act in this way. Those that do, say that they are practising a form of principled love for the child. Unfortunately children do not interpret threats of his kind as love. Nor as far as I know do most adults.
I am speaking from experience when I say that the children of Witnesses lose out and would far rather be brought up in a norman way. To be allowed to mix with their school friends and learn to be part of a team. The isolation that many experience, makes them withdrawn and lacking in self esteem unless they are among other Witnesses.
Trevor
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only in america...
by peaceloveharmony in1. only in america......can a pizza get to your house faster than an ambulance.... 2. only in america......are there handicap parking places in front of a skating rink.... 3. only in america......do drugstores make the sick walk all the way to the back of the store.
to get their prescriptions while healthy people can buy cigarettes at the front.... 4. only in america......do people order double cheeseburgers, large fries, and a diet coke.... 5. only in america......do banks leave both doors open and then chain the pens to the.
counters.... 6. only in america......do we leave cars worth thousands of dollars in the driveway and put.
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trevor
Peaceloveharmony,
A great post! I though we were pretty weird in the UK but now I realise it's a Western thing. At least you drive on the right side of the road though and don't call cookies 'bicuits.' The lable on our asprin container says line up arrows and push off. Must be why I still have a headache!
Trevor
Edited by - trevor on 14 February 2001 5:19:26