i've been thinking alot over the past few days on what makes a christian a christian, and i'm coming to some different conclusions than i ever have.... the watchtower likes to use the term "true believers" or "true christians".
i'm at a loss here lately.
you are either an atheist or you are not.
BTW, some of us who aren't Christian are also not atheists.
Understanding this is this is the beginning of wisdom. We all seek certainty - a firm position we can rely on. But the reality is that certainty just disappears.
The quest for truth is a never ending journey. Each of us are just a small part of that journey.
the reason i asked this is because i'm going to the funeral of a man who wasn't a jw.
my mother-in-law has lived in the same neighborhood as him for years and knows his wife.
i asked her if she was going attend the funeral service.
I think embarrassed would be an accurate description. At least - that was my experience.
... or is shawshank redemption the perfect equivalent to a person leaving the jw's?
i love this movie.... .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tkzc983ae0.
It's so ridiculous to use a quote from a movie to articulate something in real life.
Peace to you AGuest
serious question.. any comments?.
thank you in advance.. varian.
my wife recovered from depression just 14 months ago and things have been going well.....so much so that i started a buisness for her and we are two weeks into it.
my labby was ill vomiting abit of discomfort, i thought great, you ate something bad again!
the vet gave him a shot and sent us home.
Witness 007 Ther is nothing much I can add to the moving commments above.
Emotional wounds take time to heal and cause pain - but it will get better in time.
"you have to let it all go, neo: fear... doubt... and disbelief.
free... your mind.
" - morpheus.
Thanks for your comments Tammy.
The Christians on this board, along with the sceptics, are decent people trying their best to make sense of being human. Coming to terms with the passing years. The joys and disappointments of life and the inevitability of death. I respect that.
Some people need religion, others alcohol or some other form of escape from the harsh reality of life. I have my own illusions and wish you all well with the choices you have made in life.
Whatever we believe, we are all in this together and at the end of the day I think it will make little difference. I would love to be proved wrong.
Just felt the need to type a few words. May your god or your vice continue to work for you.
"you have to let it all go, neo: fear... doubt... and disbelief.
free... your mind.
" - morpheus.
Tammy, thanks for responding to my post. Like cofty I still struggle to understand how you can piece together you beliefs, partly from the bible and partly from communicating with a spirit, in this case Jesus.
There are many cases of people sincerely believing in invisible beings and hearing their voice. My mother was a spirit medium for many years. She claimed to be threatened by demons for years until she became a JW. Then Jehovah's spirit kept them at bay. The demons ignored my father.
I once sat with a woman who told me that we all have a guardian angel. She could see mine standing behind me. We had been knights in a previous life. We fought together and I saved his life. Apparently the bond between us was strong and he had been watching over me since my birth. He protected me to show his gratitude. She told me many details as he relayed them to her.
Why didn't he protect me from my violent mother? I asked.
He is shaking his head and looks very sad. She replied
I said, 'Whenever I phone my bank they ask me a few security questions to make sure I am genuine. To be sure you aren't making this up, could you ask the knight to tell you my mother's maiden name. If the knight can, I will know this is genuine.
She looked passed me for a while before speaking in a faint voice. 'He is fading we are losing him.
What happend? I asked.
He has told me he will not be put to the test.
Then why didn't the knight tell me that himself?
You can only hear him if you believe in him!
There we are Tammy. I have no doubt that this woman believed she was genuine and probably believed she saw a knight. But sincerity and faith do not in themselves make a belief true. My concern is that you are placing a great deal of trust and building your life around something that to me and many others is illusory.
Nowadays, I try not to get involved in heavy debate with Christians on this site. I have no desire to cause anyone to lose something they value. On the other hand to say nothing would be remiss.
All the best Trevor
i notice a lot of the discussions seem to be atheist vs christian here.
or is that just my perception?.
but, do the other people who are neither just not care to debate as much or are there just fewer or them, or both?.
Re: Why so many Atheist VS. Christian discussions here?
Because no one really knows - we are all blind and just guessing to amuse ourselves.
"you have to let it all go, neo: fear... doubt... and disbelief.
free... your mind.
" - morpheus.
The bible itself does not claim to be inerrant. Men have made that claim for it and taught this as truth, and so others have put their faith in THAT. Then, when it is shown not to be inerrant, their faith in Christ and God is sometimes gone... instead of just their faith in the false premise.
Tammy, I understand what you are saying with total clarity. My lack of faith is not caused by people's choice to put faith in a flawed book that claims to be the written by God. I have also dismissed the Koran as a man-made work of fiction.
Logically I would expect God to expose the lies of man presented in any book that claims he is the author. If a book was brought out that claimed to be written by any person in power, that named him and made numerous damning false claims about him and contained lies, the ruler would have a responsibility to publicly disclaim that book and take steps to stop it being printed. More so with a God who created the very humans that are being misled.
God has not bother act but allowed that book to become a best seller, and many sincere and innocent people to die for a faith based on that book. This leads thinking people to conclude that God is powerless to act, doesn't care about humans or does not exist as the personal and approachable God that has been claimed.
I see Christianity as a religion that is based on a faulty map. To deny that Christianity is a Bible based religion because Jesus is spirit, is to make a mockery of thousands of years of Bible based worship and belief in the Churches of Christendom. A loving God would not allow such a travesty.
The reason I am not angry with the God of the Bible is because I see the cocept as a work of fiction. That does not mean that there is no intelligence at work in the universe but it could mean, that intelligence is not concerned with humans and does not require to be worshiped, obey or looked to for answers.
You are right to believe that God cannot be found in any book or with any map. That being the case, why worship a God whose name has been taken from the dicredited Bible? It seems to me that it is better to start from scratch without any preconcieved ideas.
As Poppers said:
"... be courageous and lose your labels, beliefs, ideas, conclusions and get a taste of what's left - freedom.
"you have to let it all go, neo: fear... doubt... and disbelief.
free... your mind.
" - morpheus.
That the law has been handled falsely by the lying pen of the scribes.
Tammy - if this is true, then alas, the bible is a hoax and Jesus may never have existed. We all have the capacity to invent a person in our minds and believe that he speaks to us. It's called delusional thinking.
If god is has not proven capable of producing a single book in the history of the world, that accurately portrays his message to humans and explains the sacrifice that, according to the Bible his son made; then he is knows less about communication than the average 10 year old with a basic computer. Can people like me really be blamed for being sceptical about a supreme intelligence called God?
