the nyt has a series of forums and one is devoted to religious issues, particularly in light of current events.
it occurs to me that the wts's recent actions provide an opportunity to generate discussion.
maybe if enough people post something it will get the nyt itself interested...... here is the link - you have to register though - link: http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/webx?13@@.f1a996e
The NYT has a series of forums and one is devoted to religious issues, particularly in light of current events. It occurs to me that the WTS's recent actions provide an opportunity to generate discussion. Maybe if enough people post something it will get the NYT itself interested.....
here is the link - you have to register though - link: http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?13@@.f1a996e
the current world situation and the wt dealings with the un result in some bigger problems the wt leadership has to solve.. firstly, the war.
an event as big as the attack on the wtc so that people say this has been an historic event comparable to the events of 1914: if this has not been prophecied in the scriptures what should be expected to be?
the wt's only chance is an application of the "pushing" between the king of the south and the king of the north.
GermanJW,
I would agree with that. However, the decision was more likely a panic decision than a conscious choice. It could backfire very badly. If that happens there might be an opportunity for substantial reform.
T.
how to fix the organization.. just like the iran-contra scandal!
blame it on the dead guy!.
this is a perfect opportunity to come clean and reform the.
metatron,
Exactly my thoughts too - perhaps see my post in GermanJWs thread. How to press the point though?
t.
the current world situation and the wt dealings with the un result in some bigger problems the wt leadership has to solve.. firstly, the war.
an event as big as the attack on the wtc so that people say this has been an historic event comparable to the events of 1914: if this has not been prophecied in the scriptures what should be expected to be?
the wt's only chance is an application of the "pushing" between the king of the south and the king of the north.
This could actually be a golden opportunity for the organization. They should emulate what the Worldwide Church of God did (to an extent) and simply "come clean." This would involve an honest open examination of doctrines and procedures together with an admission that they are not the only true religion. All of the issues raised by "apostates," Ray Franz, etc., should be addressed. The blood ban and DFing should be dropped immediately. The GB is sufficiently elderly that a case could be made that they should just be retired and that they were themselves misled by Rutherford's machinations. A case could also be made that now the time has come to return to the simpler and less dogmatic approach of Russell (if it was that). Such dramatic change might even re-invigorate the organization. The fundamental doctrine of everlasting life on earth could be retained with the Great Crowd being humanity in general. All of this would happen after an invisible war in heaven etc etc.
Would JWs leave the religion? No doubt, but the vast majority would be relieved to be free of the crushing burdens imposed by the Society. Many JWs enjoy much about being a JW and would stay because they could continue on as before, worshipping God without the need to go through the emotional pain of leaving the organization, and also being able to keep many of their most basic beliefs. World events right now are such that, handled skillfully, the WTS could pull this off. Big changes can often be effected during times of flux. I firmly believe that there are enough decent people in the organization, even at the top, to pull this off.
After all, how can telling the truth hurt a Christian religion?
Finally, the WTS could retract all the nonsense it has spouted over th eyears about the UN and humbly seek its NGO status back, with a firm committment to Human Rights. The WTS could be a tremendous force for good in the world. The movement has been mainstreaming for quite some time as it is. Unless the organization relieve the internal strains that have resulted from doing this without telling the rank and file explicitly, the org. will break apart.
The alternative is for the WTS to turn ever more inward and to become even more oppressive.
I suspect that no sudden enlightened reform will happen, but that should not stop this option being explored and discussed.
T.
as of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.
and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .
after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk
wannahelp,
Also, apparently the material submitted by NGOs to prove that they are being good little NGOs is available for inspection in the DPI resource room. If you can get to see what the WTS submitted over the past 9 or 10 years then that information would be quite useful. I would imagine that it will take some time to remove this stuff, especially with the publicity that the UN is now getting because of the Nobel Prize. So there may be a window of opportunity.
T.
as of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.
and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .
after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk
From the UN's secret handbook:
If it is learned that an NGO has taken up association withT. tongue-in-cheek class
the DPI based on false promises to support the UN, the matter should be investigated, and if verified, a committee should be formed.If it is clearly established that the NGO has talked out of both sides of its mouth, the DPI would make a brief announcement to the world that such an NGO has disassociated itself from the scarlet colored wild beast. No longer will it be permitted to indulge in the priviliges accorded to the rest of Babylon the Great.
as of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.
and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .
after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk
Hawk et al,
Superb job. What timing! The WTS quits the beast and the beast immediately gets the Nobel Prize for Peace. Maybe they think they made a lucky exit but, in fact, I think this puts the spotlight on them even more.
Next time JWs stop by maybe we should act all innocent and say "aren't you people from the UN...."
T.
flash - major breaking!!!!!!!.
i just talked to paul hoeffel 1:35pm - he phoned me.. okay people.
i can now confirm that the watchtower has provided a letter in writing to dpi indicating that the wts has "disassociated" themselves from dpi - ie the wts has made it offical that they have quit.. i can also confirm that the wts has been updating dpi regularily as they are suppose to over the last 10 years.. i can also can say that something is in the works that i can disclose by hopeflly tomorrow.
The UN and Kofi Annan getting the Nobel Prize is a stroke of luck since it will focus attention on the UN, and any articles that discuss how the WTS has pulled out of the "beast" will be sure to attract considerable interest. Timing is everything.
T.
i just figured out today how to bypass the login sequences every time i reply to a thread.
but i am still miffed that i cannot follow the threads i have posted in without hunting through all the topics, some of which i may have no interest in.
is there a way on this board to track my own posts?
to all,
I'm pretty ignorant about this stuff; however, I think a large component of H2O's success was due to its format in which posts/replies were kept together. This might be obvious to most, but why can't we do that here? What would allows us to replicate H2O sans les moderateurs?
Simon; thanks! This is not a criticism in any way. I'm probably just way ignorant....
T.
i wanted to share with you a response by dutch bethel on a letter sent by dutch jw re: the ngo thing.. i've not been able to keep up with all the posts on this subject here, so i might end up saying this already said, but never mind that.. thing is, dutch bethel confirmed the ngo status, justifying it by referring to romans 13:1. .
quote from the letter (translated) : <i>"jehovah's witnesses view the organisation of the united nations in the same way they view the other governments of this world ... considering the un as one of the 'superior authorities' is a help to understanding that it is possible to have certain contacts with this institution, similar to the society having contact with ministries taking care of matters related to justice, education and the like"</i> .
as for sharing the ideals of the un charter, it was said : <i>"it is not that hard to only share ideals, while we of course pay tribute to the biblical view on the way in which they should be achieved"</i> (i couldn't help noticing the shocking similarity to the society's letter to hitler in this line of reasoning...).
[Quote]damn..we are good[\Quote]
Good but not great. Inspired? God's sole means of commmunication with mankind? ROFLMAO!!!!
Trilobite, LOL
