Posts by truman

7

Post Dateline

by ignored_one in

this i suppose is to those who are still "in".

what sort of response have you had in the field ministry?

i've just informed a friend of mine about the panorama program and asked about dateline.

I just had a conversation with an active, zealous witness, the sister who studied with me years ago. She does not know of my dissident leanings, as she lives in another state. I asked her if there had been any fallout from the 'Dateline' report in her area. She said that there had been only one comment from someone out in the territory, and nothing to serious anyway.

She has worked the whole thing around in her mind until she has completely discredited it to herself. It was interesting to hear the mental musings which enabled her to get to that point. Here are some of her justifications for discounting the charges against the WTS:

* The Catholic church has had some report about their scandal on repeatedly in every media outlet, therefore indicating a massive problem. There was only this one thing sbout the witnesses, so I guess she thought it was a small enough problem to brush off.

* When the Catholic story was covered on '60 Minutes', Ed Bradley, a major reporter, handled it. The report on 'Dateline" about the WTS was handled by a reporter she never heard of, so therefore that meant it was a minor story handed off to some lower eschalon person to give them experience in national reporting!

*Some Bethelites she knew said that they thought the story of Barbara Anderson having access to sensitive files at Bethel sounded suspicious, because sisters don't have such access. (Her belief)

* She said that the story was a little scary at first, but after the letter the elders read at the KH, and after she had time to think it over, she decided that the whole thing seemed less than credible, and some of the information was to her a little suspect.

This person is intelligent, and is a college graduate, but mind control is a powerful thing. She also told me that her Bethelite friends said that every morning at breakfast comment time (whatever it is called) the anointed (GB) say "THE END IS VERY NEAR". What a way to motivate people!

truman

31

How many did YOU recruit?

by In_between_days in

jw
friends

just a quick question, and one that seems to take jehovahs witnesses back a little, an extremely good question to ask a pioneer.

"so, with all your hours of service, how many people have you actually brought into the jehovahs witness organisation?".

um.... genuinely, 100% of my old jw freinds have all been raised in the organisation.

truman

I unfortunately am in the same sorry position as the other poster who said he only made one convert, his child. I have to my account, only my son. He is a strong witness, and a MS working with a foreign language group, giving his first hour talk next week. I used to be so proud that I had been a guiding hand in his spiritual development; now I just feel very sad that I have been instrumental in his enslavement to mind control.

I did study with one other person who got baptized, but didn't stick with it long, which is pretty much in line with the way things have been where I live. Of the handful of people who have come in out of the territory in the 16 years I have been in my current location, virtually none has stayed involved more that a short time.

truman

18

a part of ourselves we neglected

by rodnico in

jw
friends

my mother is coming to visit me next week.

i haven't seen her for over 4 years.

she thinks that somehow i am a completely different person since leaving the organization.

truman

Having been a witness from the time I was a naive 19 year old till last year in my mid 40s, I certainly do agree that are parts of myself which I neglected, but I am seeking to rectify that with each passing day.

Living for an always just-out-of-reach paradise, and putting all ones ambitions on hold waiting for it, leaves an emptiness inside. In many ways, I feel like I am back at the threshhold of my life where I was when I was sidetracked by the WTS at age 19. Unfortunately, my physical self is somewhat out of sync with my psychological side, but I am doing the best I can.

I always wanted to pursue figure skating, and last fall, I found a coach and began doing it. I can do a couple of small jumps and am working on a spin. I love it!

truman

53

Secret WTS Social Agenda

by spaz in

jw
friends

this is a both a departure from the conventional paleo-hellenic concepts of logic to a primitive yet equally tenable principle of,'actions speaking louder than words', and a synopsis.. the wts is but one of many groups which are devoted to the disintergration of the traditional or biblical family structure, via nefarious means, as part of a greater plan that envisions a two-class new world order resembling feudalism.. .

the philosophic means to achieve this state is non-biblical.

the wts repudiates the christian principle of "loving your neighbour as yourself " by adopting an altruistic approach which demands to 'love your neighbour above yourself ".

truman

I know I am fighting a losing battle on this, but it is my contention that whoever cleans the toilet should get their way on the default toilet seat position. In my house, that's me. However, life is too short to fight over such things, so live and let live. The one objection I will say though is that it is extremely unpleasant to try using the toilet during the night and find yourself unsuspectingly plopping down on the cold, narrow rim of a bare toilet bowl with the seat left up by the previous user!

truman

53

Secret WTS Social Agenda

by spaz in

jw
friends

this is a both a departure from the conventional paleo-hellenic concepts of logic to a primitive yet equally tenable principle of,'actions speaking louder than words', and a synopsis.. the wts is but one of many groups which are devoted to the disintergration of the traditional or biblical family structure, via nefarious means, as part of a greater plan that envisions a two-class new world order resembling feudalism.. .

the philosophic means to achieve this state is non-biblical.

the wts repudiates the christian principle of "loving your neighbour as yourself " by adopting an altruistic approach which demands to 'love your neighbour above yourself ".

truman

I really don't think I can agree with much of what you have put forth, but I do for a fact know of a witness couple in which the wife has insisted on the husband sitting down to urinate, and he has capitulated to her request/demand. I do find this highly strange, but I don't have any evidence that it is more than a personal quirk of their family. I was a witness for over 27 years and I never heard of this in any other case. My husband certainly does the typical male thing, and leaves the toilet seat up all the time to boot.

truman

25

Do you consider yourself an ex-JW?

by Introspection in

i'm gonna go for the direct approach here.

it's kind of strange to identify yourself as an ex- anything, to define yourself using a former identity as a point of reference, one that is no longer.

in some cases you might use it to clarify your relationship, (i'm jane's ex-husband, or whatever) but again it gets weird.. i mean we don't think of ourselves as ex-kindergarteners or something do we?

truman

Hi Introspection,

Why would we choose to define ourselves by a label which emphasizes something we 'were', rather than something we are or would like to become?

I don't know about others, and I am fairly new to this ex-jw status myself, having only realized the truth about the 'truth' about a year ago, and having attended meetings (though under duress) semi-regularly up until a few weeks ago.

But, I think a possible reason is that being a JW (in my case, 27 years)is one of life's experiences which marks us in a way that trickles, or in some cases, floods, through our lives ever afterward. Of course, we are all the sum of our past experiences, but having been a witness permeates my soul in a way which kindergarten never did. When I was in school, whatever grade, I knew that it was, by it's nature, a transitory stage. And though I might have used my grade level as an identifier in certain situations, it was never all I was about.

But 'being a JW' is what a JW is all about. It is THE defining characteristic of the faithful JW. Whatever else they may be, married, job status, parent, hobby, ...all are disposable in the face of being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. For the faithful witness, all future hopes and prospects, current relationships and activities are either filtered through or actually defined by the WT world view.

When leaving such an all-encompassing, insular culture, how can one help but be somewhat defined by their WT legacy, or at least occasionally view life from the perspective of an escapee?

Besides, being an 'ex', to me is one way of taking my self back, out of their hands. It means I have made a conscious decision to free myself. It also allows immediate empathetic understanding, with those of similar background, to take place.

On the other hand, I don't proclaim ex-jw status as a beginning fact about myself in general, but seek to redefine myself in new ways which have nothing to do with that.

PS. I have been reading some of the information on the link you sent me. There is a lot to assimilate there, but I will keep working on it.

26

Sexual Abuse of wives in the Borg

by Lady Lee in

and justly so.

when it came out, the elders and my mother chose to put me in foster care and keep the abuser in the home and congregation - supposedly to keep me safe.. i believed that at the time.

my step-father who had abused me was no longer around so it was "safe" for me to come home from the foster home (more than 500 km away).

truman

Lady Lee,

Thank you for bringing up this subject. I read this board regularly, but am usually too shy to post, but when I read this topic, I just had to say something.

I too, have lived this particular brand of sexual/emotional abuse. I have been married for nearly 30 years, and things have finally improved in the last 4 years, because I finally stood up and said that I wouldn't take it anymore. I only wish I could have gotten away with being thusly exploited 2 times a week. My husband expected sex every day, and according to him, that was a compromise, he would have preferred 2 or 3 times a day. For 90% of our marital life, we never went more that 2 days without sex. I hated it.

Mathematical calculation: conservatively, 4 times a week x 52 weeks x 26 years of the worst = 5,408 acts of enduring sexual abuse.

Many, many times I was told how deficient I was, how miserable I made him, etc. And many, many times, I had the scripture about giving one's mate their due thrown in my face. But his favorite tool was emotional blackmail. If I didn't 'put out' as required, even in the 9th month of pregnancy, he would pout and refuse to speak to me or be a part of family life. And I took this, at least in part, because I thought it was a requirement of God that I submit and endure to be pleasing to Jehovah. Of course, this kind of atmosphere quickly kills any affection one could have toward her husband. I have spent many years viewing sex as just another household task which must be done to make things run smoothly and keep peace.

Several times elders were approached about this, but the general response was to read the standard 'marriage' scriptures, and little else.

Orielly,

I would never want to minimize the anguish of suffering an overpowering or violent sexual assault, and maybe the term rape is inadequate to describe the disturbing marital situation some of us have endured. And no, at least in my case, physical force was not the fulcrum of coercion; instead the leverage was wielded through emotional manipulation. Nevertheless, what I, and others such as LL have lived is a violation of the most egregious sort. And unlike the isolated act of criminal rape, this continues for years, with the object of the exploitation being forced to daily greet as a companion the perpetrator of the abuse. Not only that, we can't even (in the WTS) reveal our miserable state, but must put a smile on our faces and act like we are happy to have a spiritual head, a husband in 'the truth'. In the meantime, we are left to deny ourselves, and numb our own sexuality just to survive.

As I said, usually I am too shy to post, so please, if I have said anything to offend anyone, I'm sorry, and be gentle with me.

35

Anybody from California?

by hungry4life in

jw
friends

i live in northern california.

most of the conventions and get togethers i have seen posted are in the midwest.

am i all alone out here?

truman

I live in northern CA, in the central valley. There are support groups in the Bay Area for xjws. Email me for more specifics, hungry4life, if you are anywhere near.

20

Cruel Pre-1975 Teaching Point - Persecution

by Amazing in

jw
friends

persecution: sometime around late 1973 early 1974, when jws everywhere were in eager anticipation of armageddon breaking out, we also feared something else.

prior to armageddon, there would be the great tribulation, and just about this time we expected heavy persecution, so much so, that is was hard to help bible studies (newbies) to get over this fear.. service meeting part: during a service meeting, the elder giving the part was speaking about such persecution and of course all this was prefaced with our obedience to jehovah and his organization, doing all the works, meetings, etc.

.... ... as he spoke, there was suddenly loud banging on all of our entry-exit doors.

truman

Amazing,

I have not been around much lately, but when I saw your subject, I had to respond. I was baptized in 1974, myself, and vividly remember being terrorized by the lurid accounts of the Malawi persecution described in WT articles. I also remember being given a healthy (or would that better be called unhealthy) dose of the possibility and even probability of severe physical persecution as a part of my pre-baptism studies (all backed up by Scriptural references). I am a very sensitive person, and the effect of all this was very unpleasant and mentally disturbing. I had recurring fears for many years about the inevitability of suffering such things as being jailed, raped, beaten, or all of the above as an inescapable by-product of being a witness. When my children were born, I went through many mental scenarios of being forced to endure watching them tortured to get to me or the like. Eventually, I had been able to put these thoughts a little further from the front of my mind as a witness, but they are always there for such a one. However, when I made my own discoveries of the mind control manipulations behind this whole thing, I made a list for myself of benefits to me of this new knowledge. Prominently featured on that list was at last being free of this fear of violent persecution. This is such a terrible burden to put on people, and those who use such a tool are shameful. Thanks for bringing this subject up!

4

R&F at fault for Armaggedon delay

by truman in

jw
friends

well, another issue of the wt came today, aug 15,2001. and again it has some statements which piqued my ire, so i thought i would share a couple.. on pg.28, paragraph 14, in the study article titled 'do not give up in doing what is fine'is the following:.

"remember too, that 'jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed, but desires all to attain to repentance.

' (2 peter3:9) notice, god is 'patient with you'--members of the christian congregation.

truman

Well, another issue of the WT came today, Aug 15,2001. And again it has some statements which piqued my ire, so I thought I would share a couple.

On pg.28, paragraph 14, in the study article titled 'Do Not Give Up in Doing What Is Fine'is the following:

"Remember too, that 'Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed, but desires all to attain to repentance.' (2 Peter3:9) Notice, God is 'patient with YOU'--members of the Christian congregation. Evidently, some of us need more time to make changes and adjustments so as to 'be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace' (2Peter 3:14) Should we not be grateful, then, that God has shown such patience?"

(The message here seems to be that the reason Armaggedon is not here yet, is because the bros. and sis. are not worthy yet. Apparently, they are not following all the rules well enough, and God is going to make everybody suffer till the culprits get it right. How is that for a guilt trip ?)

In another article on Page 16, paragraph 7, we learn:

"We may ahve opposition from unbelieving family members, including disfellowshipped relatives, who might try to lure us into unwholesome association."

(Boy, those corrupted disfellowshipped relatives. Nothing is beneath them. They are ready to use whatever bait they can to lure the faithful. It couldn't be that they would just like to be able to enjoy and pursue some semblance of a normal family relationship.)

I hope you enjoy these as much as I did!