Posts by Rattigan350

12

What the watchtower demands from you

by Ron.W. in

perhaps you considering joining the wt cult - here is a concise list of why you should not.. what the watchtower demands of you:.

1.complete obedience to them.. 2. be willing to lose your life for zany blood teachings.. 3.put other cult members before your real family.. 4.refusal to let you leave their religion when the penny drops it's a cult.. 6.accept that they can backtrack and change any of their flip flop teachings at any time.. 7. you can't change your mind about their teachings without harsh discipline,.

8. insistence that you humbly and quickly apologise for your mistakes and errors.. 9.gladly accept they will never be apologising for any of their mistakes or errors of judgement.. 10.accept that even ones who follow and believe in the bible, but not the governing body are worthy of destruction.. please feel free to add more..

Rattigan350

They don't demand anything of us.

And if they do.

Just say NO

I don't understand why everyone is afraid of the Watchtower and the Governing Body.l

35

Visited the Russell gravesite yesterday

by dropoffyourkeylee in

wife and i visited the russell gravesite in allegheny (pittsburgh) pennsylvania yesterday.

i’ll post photos if i can get them to upload on the hotel wifi..

Rattigan350

Why does anyone care about Russell grave? He didn't put it there. Why does anyone care about Russell? He's dead.

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Rattigan350

Thomasmore asked ""As of right now (or rather 1995) all of the 144,000 have been anointed and sealed."

Can you please elaborate on this comment. I have never heard that JW's ever felt 1995 was pivotal"

The number of partakers went down until about 1994,1995.Then they started to go up.. More people weren't being anointed. People partook because they wanted to be anointed, as if that changed things.

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Rattigan350

Pronger1. Rev 5 has nothing to do with the 144,000

"The 144,000 is the great multitude fulfilled in an unexpected way for the Jews"

No. No. No.

Ex 19:5,6 "Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’"

That is fulfilled in 1 Pet 2:9 "But you are “a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."

That was supposed to go to Israel but they were unfaithful and it was transferred to spiritual Israel.

When Jesus was on earth, neither he, nor Peter nor Paul, knew how many would make up spiritual Israel. Jesus said little flock. But he later learned when he got the Revelation that it would be 144,000.

Revelation 5:9,10 & 20:4-6 says that those who are raised to heaven in the first resurrection are to be kings and priests with Jesus. The number 144,000 makes sense to assist Jesus. They are anointed with holy spirit as anointing is what makes a king.

Jesus was resurrected in a spirit body.

John 2:21 "But he was speaking of the temple of his body" was John's commentary about what Jesus said. We can not take that as fact.

What Jesus said to Thomas does not change things. He was not a ghost or spirit at that time because he had taken on a body.

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Rattigan350

"However, the faithful anointed still on earth will be gathered together instantly."

I don't know that that is necessarily true.

They still have to die to be raised.

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Rattigan350

pronger1 "Paul used the symbolism of the Roman adventus in having Jesus return to Earth"

No one believed that Jesus would return to the earth. Because Jesus never said he would.

It's this simple:

John 14:2-4 " In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. And where I am going, you know the way.”"

Jesus here said he will come again. but to receive them to himself. His coming is by his resurrecting them.

Paul said that there would be a heavenly Jerusalem. The king would rule from heaven. That way the enemies can't touch him.

However, we can't follow what Paul or Jesus said as that is old light. They didn't have the Revelation.

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Rattigan350

Rapture is a misunderstanding of what Paul said.

People believe that Jesus will return and then the Christians will disappear and then go to heaven.

Such is not a Biblical teaching. Another popular belief that is not thought out.

1 Thess 4:14 "faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus."

Since Pentecost Christian became anointed with holy spirit and Paul explains that when they die and they sleep in death.

Paul didn't know that would be limited to 144,000 as that number was not given until Revelation.

Then the events of Rev 12 occurred in 1914 and Jesus cleansed the heavens by casting Satan and his demons out. That fulfills John 14:2,3

"In the house of my Father are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be." This right here is what Jesus meant when he said he is coming again. He is not coming to the earth, he is coming to has apostles by resurrecting them to him.

That is what Paul meant by 1 Thess 4:15 "For this is what we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death;"

16 "because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. (Actually they don't rise, he

should have said they will be raised first)

The ones who are dead in Christ (anointed ones who have died) were resurrected at that time.

Then after that time, when anointed Christians die, they immediately get raised to heaven and not sleep in death.
It's that simple, sleep in death vs no sleep in death.

v 17 "Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord."

That is where the rapture gets it wrong. They have to die first. He also explains that here:

1 Cor 15:50 "Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the corruptible inherit the incorruptible."

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed."

Also, Paul is not one to listen to about details about future events. He was not a prophet. He

talks in fancy language. "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." Where did he get this?

He didn't know anything about trumpets. Trumpets were not in play until Revelation.

"be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air;" More fancy talk. Where did he get that from?

Jesus' ascension when he rose to the air? Paul should know that Jesus is not in the air, he is a spirit

being.

As of right now (or rather 1995) all of the 144,000 have been anointed and sealed. There is just a handful that

have not been raised to heavenly life.

43

Members of congregation know it’s not true

by Mikejw in

we have lonely old folks and even some not so old.. they know the gb are not who they claim to be.. but they stay in the congregation because they are lonely.

i wonder what percentage of jws this is the case, i would guess a lot.

.

Rattigan350

"they know the GB are not who they claim to be.but they stay in the congregation because they are lonely"

Who does the GB claim to be?

And what the that claim have to do with the people staying in the congregation?

25

Would there, or would there not be, lawsuits if they took away the blood transfusion ban?

by VerdadTJ2 in

jw
friends

i have heard or read, many times by many exjw's, that the org does not remove the blood transfusion ban because it would be crippled by the resulting lawsuits the minute that "new light" was made official.i am not a lawyer, but i would like to know what legal opinion lawyers have on that.on what legal basis would there be a lawsuit?

"i am suing the watchtower because my relative died because of a rule they had but no longer have"?am i missing something?.

Rattigan350

They have the no blood transfusion rule because they have, going back to Knorr and Franz, this philosophy that they need to obey God's rules to please God.

In other words, they are pharisees in that they want to say that we are better than everyone else because we obey these rules. That's what everything is about, getting God's approval because JWs are better than everyone else.

And they feel that we have to do everything to get that approval to get life.

But they don't consider the question of How can it be a law if there are not consequences for breaking it?

People who take blood or give it continue living and then die like everyone else. So they say they won't get a resurrection. The dead are conscious of nothing, so they dead don't worry about not getting a resurrection. But yet is that something that will land someone in Gehenna? No. Because idolatry and fornication won't either.

14

Key Criticisms of the Organization

by Vanderhoven7 in

just picked this summary up.

"some of the key criticisms that have been raised about the jehovah's witness organization include:.

strict control and authoritarianism: the organization is highly centralized, with major decisions being made by the governing body.

Rattigan350

This guy has a beard so that makes him someone that I wouldn't even listen to. Get your presentation right first by getting the look right.

Also, why aren't these issues being taken care of properly and enmass?