Posts by Rattigan350

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Rattigan350

Col 1:16. That's what Paul said and we know that what Paul said doesn't amount to a hill of beans if it didn't come from the Law and the prophets.

So where did Paul get the info for 1:16?

Verse 15 says "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation"

Everyone gets confused by the word "God". I prefer the term "Supreme Being". (hereafter SBf) Jesus is the image of the SB, the firstborn of all creation.

Well, that is a fact. Since the SB said 3 times that Jesus is his son, and the devil knows that Jesus is the son of the SB as stated in Matt 4:3 : “If you are a son of God" and the demons said Matt 8:29 Jesus is the son of God or son of SB, "they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? " And all of them are in the know.

But where does the idea that Jesus is the creator come from in vs 16 "by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through himr and for him."

John 1:3 says the same thing but John's biography wasn't in print yet, so Paul couldn't use that. So where did Paul get that info?

13

What would it like to see

by JohnR1975 in

what i would like to see and maybe will get there in about another ten years is being a jw is a rewarding thing that enriches your life.. just like other religions out there you may not know the entire truth and maybe not quite right many of the beliefs but to have to idea of a belief centres and stabilises you.. i would like jws to be able to celebrate birthdays and maybe even other holidays if they choose to and not be judged by those who choose not to.. i would like jws to be allowed to have different interpretations of scripture and everyone is happy to agree to disagree and be able to say to each other yes maybe that interpretation is nearer the truth.

we just don’t know.. i would like new members of the gb to issue an apology for previous members getting so many things wrong.. they need to come out and say they were wrong about 1914 this date has no scriptural significance and the same is true of 1919. jws were not chosen in 1919 as the one and only true religion.. we just don’t know about so many things and it takes humility to admit we were wrong.. i would like to see even more lightening up on stupid restrictions like young people being allowed to have a varied friends and activities that are not with jws only..

Rattigan350

"I would like JWs to be able to celebrate birthdays and maybe even other holidays"

Why would you want to do a dumb thing like that?

We are free of following the world and its holidays. Embrace that freedom.

"I would like new members of the GB to issue an apology for previous members getting so many things wrong."

Previous members of the governing body?

What has the GB gotten wrong? Nothing.

They inherited everything that they have from the prior GB's who inherited it from prior ones who got it from the president and Vice president of the Watchtower Society, Namely Knorr and Franz.

The things that they got wrong were the need for obedience so much that they became pharisees.

I mean, see how they had this Question from Readers about oral sex within a marriage because of the word that Paul used "unnatural". As I've said many times, why are we following Paul and especially to that extreme. He was not a prophet and his words were not from God.

15

Jehovah’s Witnesses’ UN Prophecy Fails Again: Trump’s Win Proves Them Wrong

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/-kdbs3lcsx8?si=icfla8tzg0p_wdcz.

the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses (gb) has done it again—another bold prophecy, another epic fail.

during their 2024 annual meeting, they confidently announced that the nations of the world would soon hand over their power to the united nations.

Rattigan350

" In their narrative, the UN is destined to rise as the ultimate global authority, fulfilling their interpretation of biblical prophecy"

You would understand this if you understood that this was about the "cry of peace and security" and that the WT writers have gotten that wrong from the beginning.

The nations will not cry peace and security.

It's not a GB prophesy. The Governing body does not make prophesies.

And there does not need tobe a Youtube video about it.

It is a misapplication of Paul's writings.

33

Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies

by slimboyfat in

i don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.

james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.

unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.

Rattigan350

Slimboyfat, I talked to Penton on the phone in the mid 90s. He was not pleasant and not good to talk to. Just holding a chip on his shoulder. But anyone who is anti Watchtower is angry. In the late 80s, I talked to Walter Martin on his radio show about 1 Tim 3:16 and he accused me of 'That's not scholarly, that's not scholarly' and hung up.

66

Trump wins

by gavindlt in

i am non political and have never voted but nonetheless i have been keenly watching to see how the trump presidential race unfolds.

i believe that his involvement in propelling or influencing a leaning toward bible prophecy will unfold.

how, i can’t say but something tells me that this anomaly and outlier being trump is highly signifiant!

Rattigan350

I'm just glad that the prosecutions and court cases against Trump will end or be put on hold. Such misuse of the courts for politics is wrong.

17

Creation, Not Evolution Best Explains Genetics

by Sea Breeze in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umnhg0a9dlu.

evolutionists can change their model, and invent stories whenever they want to accomodate data.

biblical literalists are stuck with just one model, one account, and are unable to change it.

Rattigan350

Evolution can't explain reproduction.

Evolution can't explain how the need to cleans blood altered DNA to create 2 kidneys on each side of the body. Then they started filtering and the output went where? Just in the body and the people died from sepsis?

Then the DNA got the idea that it needs to direct the bad things out of the body so it created uterers down. Then those uterers merged in a bladder that hadn't evolved yet because there was no need. Then the bladder got full and got backed up and people died. Then the DNA got the idea that it needs to mutate to create a urethra and send it out the body. Why not just use the penis as it has a hole in it for semen and sperm? And for women just make a hole to go out.

That's nuts. DNA can't think and mutations can created such precise organs.

90

What is Your Favorite WT Lie?

by Sea Breeze in

i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.

surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.

my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.

Rattigan350

How are any of those things Lies?

51

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

Rattigan350

Sanchy said "It's interesting how both sides of the argument could use different Bible scriptures to prove their point."

No. There is nothing that the trinitarians can do to prove it. What they use are weak and irrelevant arguments from scriptures that are spurious and controversial. They just have their pet scriptures, but when examined they don't work.

They like to use John 1:1. Word was God.

But they don't understand that it was a prologue to the biography of Jesus written 65 years after his death.

Doesn't that contradict Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;" But they don't see that.

How about something contemporaneous to his life?

They like to use what Thomas said "My Lord and My God" which is out of context, but they ignore specific sayings to the contrary.

John 1:49 "Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel."

And Matt 16:16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Oh, but they created this "God the Son" thing to get around that.

51

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

Rattigan350

"The diagram is scriptural and illustrates how Jesus is both Fully Man and Fully God. Please explain how my chart is unscriptural or inconsistent?"

What scriptures support that diagram?

The ones you listed there don't support that. Yes, God is spirit. Nothing to do with Body, Soul and Spirit. Yes, 1 Thess 5:23 says "may the spirit and soul and body of you brothers" it does not indicate a tripartite nature of man because while Pauls wrote that, he was wrong. Soul = body + spirit or breath. I accept what Genesis 2:7 said over Paul "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Body + breath of life = living soul. 1+1 = 2. Not 1+1+ 1.

"Jesus raised himself from the dead"

If Jesus could do that, he wasn't dead. Then the sacrifice was invalid.

No, death does not mean separation. Death means not working or functioning. It's like turning your computer off and unplugging it. It's dead. It won't come on.

33

Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies

by slimboyfat in

i don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.

james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.

unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.

Rattigan350

Penton was an angry man. He's not in heaven like he thought he would be. The thing about being mild tempered is in play there.