Posts by Rattigan350

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Rattigan350

!Seabreeze you stated " Paul explicitly states that his gospel was received directly by revelation from Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:12)."

Full context here.vs 11 "that the good news I declared to you is not of human origin;" It is the good news that he received from Jesus that he stated, not the history of the universe.

You acknowledge that Gen 1:26 " God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" Sounds like Jehovah is speaking to another. The another is his son. The master worker. However, it is clear throughout gen 1 it says God in every verse. And starting in Gen 2;7 it says Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Nothing about Jesus giving life there. Vs 8,9,15,18,19,21,22 state Jehovah God.

So why they need to ask if Jesus is the creator when it specifically states that Jehovah God?

"Firstborn of all creation" (v. 15) does not mean Jesus is part of creation. " Why do people continually say that? Jesus is not the supreme being so he had a beginning. That is why he and others called him God's son. Paul's calling him the firstborn of all creation shows that.

There is nothing wrong or bad about saying that Jesus was created to make him the son of God.

You all in your attempts to elevate Jesus forget 1 John 5:13 "I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God". He specifically was termed that for a reason. And using that shows we acknowledge that he was created.

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Rattigan350

Is Jesus the creator?

He never said he was.

You are relying on outsiders like John and Paul, ones who did not experience the creation process.

What did Jesus say who was the creator.

Matt 6:26 "Observe intently the birds of heaven, they do not sow seed or reap or gather into storehouses, yet your heavenly Father feeds them"

Jesus' Father, Jehovah, doesn't actually feed the birds. What he did was created the rain cycle of water evaporating and going to the clouds and rain. And also photsynthesis to have plants grow. That is an automated process designed by Jesus' Father.

Jehovah God is the architect of the material world.

While Jesus was the actual worker making those things. Prov 8:30 said of him "Then I was beside him as a master worker"

Jesus didn't say he did that or that he created anything. He gave credit to his Father.

So why do people go against him and want to make him the creator because an outsider said a verse about that?

13

Why are the Governing Body Members always in-house New York Bethel members?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower—study edition | february 2024.

''we are pleased to inform you that two additional brothers have been appointed to serve as members of the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses: brothers gage fleegle and jeffrey winder.

both brothers are anointed christians who have a long history of loyal service to jehovah.

Rattigan350

That's what I wonder. What about getting fishermen (regular workers) or tax collectors or people of many occupations.

25

gossip

by Nancy1919 in

i was once was told by an jw elder it was a rule not to gossip or swear as it could harm someone, but i guess the new light allows this.

it was bad enough when they were calling people worldly now i heard a jw gossiping about someone and it was mean.just another reason i would never go back.

.

Rattigan350

"told by an jw elder it was a rule not to gossip or swear as it could harm someone,"

What? You had to be told by an elder that? Didn't your mother tell you not to talk about others? If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it at all? If people rely on the elders to learn that they shouldn't gossip, then manners have really gone away.

39

I've done it: Christmas Lights Outside

by StephaneLaliberte in

lets see if that causes a problem.

i've been inactive for a very long time now (like 10+ years), so, i don't expect to hear anything from it, but my parents are worried i'll get df.

lets see what happens.

Rattigan350

How sad that you resorted to following the world.

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Rattigan350

Seabreeze said "The first Christians certainly thought Jesus was God. His hand picked apostles thought he was God. How could anyone who witnessed Jesus' prediction of Self-Resurrection think otherwise?"

NO. Not true at all.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ, the Son of God"

Mark is said to have gotten his info from Peter who also said in Matt 16:16 "Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Demons are in the know as to who Jesus is and they said:

Luke 4:41 Demons also came out of many, crying out and saying: "You are the Son of God." But rebuking them, he would not permit them to speak, for they knew him to be the Christ."

John 1:49 Na·than'a·el responded: "Rabbi, you are the Son of God, you are King of Israel."

So tell us, which apostles stated that Jesus was God?

And Jesus did not predict a self-resurrection.If he was able to resurrect himself, then he was not dead. If he was not dead, then the sacrifice is invalid.

Peter said as recorded in Acts 2:32 "God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses"

vs 36 "let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ"

God made him Lord and Christ. Jesus was nothing by himself. Who he is, is because of God his Father making him that way and giving him those titles.

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Rattigan350

Col 1:16. That's what Paul said and we know that what Paul said doesn't amount to a hill of beans if it didn't come from the Law and the prophets.

So where did Paul get the info for 1:16?

Verse 15 says "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation"

Everyone gets confused by the word "God". I prefer the term "Supreme Being". (hereafter SBf) Jesus is the image of the SB, the firstborn of all creation.

Well, that is a fact. Since the SB said 3 times that Jesus is his son, and the devil knows that Jesus is the son of the SB as stated in Matt 4:3 : “If you are a son of God" and the demons said Matt 8:29 Jesus is the son of God or son of SB, "they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? " And all of them are in the know.

But where does the idea that Jesus is the creator come from in vs 16 "by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through himr and for him."

John 1:3 says the same thing but John's biography wasn't in print yet, so Paul couldn't use that. So where did Paul get that info?

13

What would it like to see

by JohnR1975 in

what i would like to see and maybe will get there in about another ten years is being a jw is a rewarding thing that enriches your life.. just like other religions out there you may not know the entire truth and maybe not quite right many of the beliefs but to have to idea of a belief centres and stabilises you.. i would like jws to be able to celebrate birthdays and maybe even other holidays if they choose to and not be judged by those who choose not to.. i would like jws to be allowed to have different interpretations of scripture and everyone is happy to agree to disagree and be able to say to each other yes maybe that interpretation is nearer the truth.

we just don’t know.. i would like new members of the gb to issue an apology for previous members getting so many things wrong.. they need to come out and say they were wrong about 1914 this date has no scriptural significance and the same is true of 1919. jws were not chosen in 1919 as the one and only true religion.. we just don’t know about so many things and it takes humility to admit we were wrong.. i would like to see even more lightening up on stupid restrictions like young people being allowed to have a varied friends and activities that are not with jws only..

Rattigan350

"I would like JWs to be able to celebrate birthdays and maybe even other holidays"

Why would you want to do a dumb thing like that?

We are free of following the world and its holidays. Embrace that freedom.

"I would like new members of the GB to issue an apology for previous members getting so many things wrong."

Previous members of the governing body?

What has the GB gotten wrong? Nothing.

They inherited everything that they have from the prior GB's who inherited it from prior ones who got it from the president and Vice president of the Watchtower Society, Namely Knorr and Franz.

The things that they got wrong were the need for obedience so much that they became pharisees.

I mean, see how they had this Question from Readers about oral sex within a marriage because of the word that Paul used "unnatural". As I've said many times, why are we following Paul and especially to that extreme. He was not a prophet and his words were not from God.

15

Jehovah’s Witnesses’ UN Prophecy Fails Again: Trump’s Win Proves Them Wrong

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/-kdbs3lcsx8?si=icfla8tzg0p_wdcz.

the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses (gb) has done it again—another bold prophecy, another epic fail.

during their 2024 annual meeting, they confidently announced that the nations of the world would soon hand over their power to the united nations.

Rattigan350

" In their narrative, the UN is destined to rise as the ultimate global authority, fulfilling their interpretation of biblical prophecy"

You would understand this if you understood that this was about the "cry of peace and security" and that the WT writers have gotten that wrong from the beginning.

The nations will not cry peace and security.

It's not a GB prophesy. The Governing body does not make prophesies.

And there does not need tobe a Youtube video about it.

It is a misapplication of Paul's writings.

33

Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies

by slimboyfat in

i don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.

james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.

unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.

Rattigan350

Slimboyfat, I talked to Penton on the phone in the mid 90s. He was not pleasant and not good to talk to. Just holding a chip on his shoulder. But anyone who is anti Watchtower is angry. In the late 80s, I talked to Walter Martin on his radio show about 1 Tim 3:16 and he accused me of 'That's not scholarly, that's not scholarly' and hung up.