EdenOne

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Posts by EdenOne

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  30

  EVIDENCE that Christians fled Jerusalem after 66 CE ...?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what the ot says ... what sources of evidence do we have that account for the 'great escape' of the christians from jerusalem after cestius gallus siege of 66 ce ?

  do we have any christian prespective about it?

  since i concluded that all nt books were concluded before 66 ce (including revelation), what do we have in order to support the story that the jerusalem christians ran to pela ...etc....?

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  EdenOne

  Aroboles,

  To me is clear the reason why John doesn't mention the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem: Because all of his writings were produced BEFORE the 66-70 CE crisis. See further details on my article "Dating Revelation - Solely With Internal Evidence from the New testament" I'm actually well persuaded that he started to receive the visions of Revelation by 41 CE. If this is indeed true, then it explains A LOT about the other writings of Paul and Peter and its the simplest explanation for the lack of any reference to the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 CE.

  As for Eusebius, there seems to be no other source that I'm aware of. He also spoke based on earlier sources, but it's what we've got. In any case, I think that the persecutions from the Jewish leaders and Nerus did more to make the Hebrew Christians disperse from Jerusalem into other areas of the Roman Empire, than actually the events during the 66-70 crisis. Tradition has it (but on what reliable source?) that the last members of the congregation in Jerusalem left the city towards Pella after celebrating Pentecost in the city in 69 CE. I assume that, by then, none of the original twelve apostles was part of that remnant.

  Eden
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  17

  When Did Dr. Alexander Hislops Become A Pariah to the Watchtower Society?

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am going to be speaking to the 45-55 years old plus generation here.

  i bought my first copy around 1980, it was the thing to do because it proved most of christendom's believes came from nimrod, and by the end of the 1980s the book and the name faded away into oblivion.. .

  the watchtower use to print that book or distribute it, am i correct or has my memory gotten bad?

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  EdenOne

  sorry, double post
• 
  17

  When Did Dr. Alexander Hislops Become A Pariah to the Watchtower Society?

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am going to be speaking to the 45-55 years old plus generation here.

  i bought my first copy around 1980, it was the thing to do because it proved most of christendom's believes came from nimrod, and by the end of the 1980s the book and the name faded away into oblivion.. .

  the watchtower use to print that book or distribute it, am i correct or has my memory gotten bad?

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  EdenOne

  I've got "The Two Babylons", and I remember that, until certain time, the book could be ordered as a "special item" through the literature counter of the congregation. Then it faded into oblivion. I believe Fred Franz loved that book because it pushed the idea that the roman cahtolic church was full of Babylon-originated doctrines and practises, and therefore, was the "scientific evidence" that backed him to identify "corrupted Christianity" with "Babylon the Great" of Revelation.

  Eden
• 
  43

  The apparent contradiction of John 3:13

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the wts uses john 3:13 to prove that before jesus no one was taken to heaven.. in the nwt, john 3:13 reads:"moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the son of man.".

  notice a difference to the king james bible:.

  john 3:13 - "and no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man who is in heaven.

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  EdenOne

  Randy,

  John 3:13 is quite a challenging text. You're right, the term "home" isn't in the original text. I was only using the Waymouth New Testament as an example of a possible transliteration because I think it grasps the idea correctly, but resorts to a non-literal expression. Perhaps a better formulation would be "... who exists [is] in heaven". It's less problematic from the interpretation point of view [i.e more neutral].

  I also think that this particular text doesn't rule out the possibility that resurrections into the heavenly realm might have ocurred before Jesus. The case of Enoch being the one that strikes me as more relevant. Plus, the fact that Jesus taught:

  "even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' and He is not a God of dead men, but of living, for all live to Him." - Luke 20:37, 38

  Eden
• 
  30

  EVIDENCE that Christians fled Jerusalem after 66 CE ...?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what the ot says ... what sources of evidence do we have that account for the 'great escape' of the christians from jerusalem after cestius gallus siege of 66 ce ?

  do we have any christian prespective about it?

  since i concluded that all nt books were concluded before 66 ce (including revelation), what do we have in order to support the story that the jerusalem christians ran to pela ...etc....?

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  EdenOne

  Vanderhoven7,

  Thank you for the references. I've read the article by Mark Wilson, and his focus is to qualify Pella as a "mountanous region" (despite being mostly in a valley) and I agree with him, it's clearly a region surrounded by mountains.

  Eden
• 
  30

  EVIDENCE that Christians fled Jerusalem after 66 CE ...?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what the ot says ... what sources of evidence do we have that account for the 'great escape' of the christians from jerusalem after cestius gallus siege of 66 ce ?

  do we have any christian prespective about it?

  since i concluded that all nt books were concluded before 66 ce (including revelation), what do we have in order to support the story that the jerusalem christians ran to pela ...etc....?

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• 

  EdenOne

  BOTR,

  You seem to be picking on me for whatever reason. May I ask why? Because your replies are ad hominem attacks and largely unsubstanciated. If indeed you can present solid evidence to back up your rebuttals, I'm happy to hear, for I'm also learning. If not, then please lower the tone, because its getting frankly insulting and I did nothing to you to grant such attacks. You may have education on law, but I got education in anthropology and aeronautics. Just in case you want to swing spades, you better know who's on the other side. We're merely discussing opinions here. This is a free forum, not your sandbox.

  Eden
• 
  30

  EVIDENCE that Christians fled Jerusalem after 66 CE ...?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what the ot says ... what sources of evidence do we have that account for the 'great escape' of the christians from jerusalem after cestius gallus siege of 66 ce ?

  do we have any christian prespective about it?

  since i concluded that all nt books were concluded before 66 ce (including revelation), what do we have in order to support the story that the jerusalem christians ran to pela ...etc....?

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  EdenOne

  66 CE is the date for the early siege by Cestius Gallus ... it's the beginning of the First Jewish War, that ended up with the calamity of Jerusalem in 70 CE.

  Eden
• 
  43

  The apparent contradiction of John 3:13

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the wts uses john 3:13 to prove that before jesus no one was taken to heaven.. in the nwt, john 3:13 reads:"moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the son of man.".

  notice a difference to the king james bible:.

  john 3:13 - "and no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man who is in heaven.

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  EdenOne

  JH

  I doubt that many thousands of people were willing to risk their lives for a message that was a complete forgery. Even before the internet, frauds could be exposed. I think that simply put, Christianity followed its course, fragmented, dispersed .... and what remains is that salvation is an individual responsability before God.

  Eden
• 
  30

  EVIDENCE that Christians fled Jerusalem after 66 CE ...?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what the ot says ... what sources of evidence do we have that account for the 'great escape' of the christians from jerusalem after cestius gallus siege of 66 ce ?

  do we have any christian prespective about it?

  since i concluded that all nt books were concluded before 66 ce (including revelation), what do we have in order to support the story that the jerusalem christians ran to pela ...etc....?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  From what i could read so far, it seems to me that the ONLY account that MAY have some credibility about this subject is the one given by Eusebius, which is probably based on an earlier account by a certain Ariston of Pella (c. 100-160) or in the Memoirs of Hegesippus (c. 180 AD). Archaeological evidence is scarse. The Ebionites originated from pella and they considered themselves as the true inheritors of the church of Jerusalem.

  Eden
• 
  30

  EVIDENCE that Christians fled Jerusalem after 66 CE ...?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what the ot says ... what sources of evidence do we have that account for the 'great escape' of the christians from jerusalem after cestius gallus siege of 66 ce ?

  do we have any christian prespective about it?

  since i concluded that all nt books were concluded before 66 ce (including revelation), what do we have in order to support the story that the jerusalem christians ran to pela ...etc....?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  EdenOne

  JH, I wrote an extensive article about dating Revelation and published it on my website. My conclusion is that all NT books (including Revelation and the Gospel of John) were written before 66 CE, hence no mention mention made in the Bible of the destruction of Jerusalem as a past event. Actually, it appears fairly solid that Revelation was received by John before the other books of the NT were written.

  It's, of course, subject to criticism. BOTR defines it as "utter nonsense". I find curious that BOTR doesn't find "utter nonsense" the notion that the writer of the Gospel of John is a different person than "John of Patmos". Oh well.

  Eden