Posts by EdenOne

23

Religion without revelation - any examples from the past?

by EdenOne in

i'm researching on the common trait of mostly every religion coming from pre-humanist times, and that would be, the notion of "revelation", that is, that at the beginning of every [i say this with caution because i'm admitting to exceptions] religion there is some sort of "revelation" from supernatural being(s) of some sort.. my question is: do you know of any example of religions from the past that you can confidently say that were exempt from "revelation"?

this is not the same as asking if there were religions without gods, or religions of nature.

i'm not even considering what i understand as philosophical-ethical systems, such as confucionism or platonism my purpose is to find out if, at the starting point of all religions of the past, there is a "revelation", or merely "observation / contemplation".

EdenOne

Ruby,

you need to clarify what you mean by "observation / contemplation"

mmmm, I think what I really mean is "non-revelation dependant", "non-dependant on a mystical connection with the supernaural", "non-dependant on enlightenment from a supernatural entity". Strictly speaking, this doesn't necessarily narrows it down to empiricism, although would be a substantial part of it. There are other ways to knowledge beyond sensory experience, such as imagination, mathematical logic, methaphysics ... In a sense, Descartes would say that our senses may trick and deceive us, so they're not entirely reliable. Let's say that "revelation" is prone to deception - voluntary or involuntary.

So, a religion which, at its core, doesn't need to resort to the supernatural in order to satisfy the human drive for "spirituality" or explain the world around us. To be sure, those movements do exist, but, to my knowledge, they are all post-rationalism. I'm interested in realizing if there are any such BEFORE rationalism era.

Eden

20

Governing Body sick of waiting! They want the paradise they were promised!

by donuthole in

jw
friends

this post is going to suggest that the governing body remains, as ray franz wrote, "captives of a concept".

like every jehovah's witness they were raised with the belief that the the paradise would be here by now.

unlike others, they are in a position to do something about.. why wait to rule over the earth?

EdenOne

Once the "big disappointment" of the 100 years of Jesus' kingdom dawns upon the GB and the upper echleons of the Org, they will start scrambling for new theological explanations as to why Armaggedon hasn't happened yet. Expect lots of "new light" over the next couple of years ...

Eden

13

Theory

by Theredeemer in

jw
friends

someone mentioned this in a post and i feel the need to make this theory its own thread.. i think that this past zone visit was intended to be that weird!

i think it was a test of faith in this regard, are you loyal enough to ignore the crazyness of all that was stated?

what if they are setting up for radical changes and are testing the waters to see if this current group of jdubs are going to readily drink the kool aid?.

EdenOne

BTW, Tony Morris' discourse was the same as the one he delivered in Italy about 2 months ago on the Zone visit there. It's clearly an outline talk, therefore, not erratic, not mere impulse tirades. Of course, it makes you wonder where's the spiritual depth of these men.

Eden

13

Theory

by Theredeemer in

jw
friends

someone mentioned this in a post and i feel the need to make this theory its own thread.. i think that this past zone visit was intended to be that weird!

i think it was a test of faith in this regard, are you loyal enough to ignore the crazyness of all that was stated?

what if they are setting up for radical changes and are testing the waters to see if this current group of jdubs are going to readily drink the kool aid?.

EdenOne

I think there's a "masterplan" ... but it's not the GB that's thinking it. Something else is at play here.

Eden

24

Show this to the young ones in the congregation

by EdenOne in

hopefully it will make them think.. .

.

eden.

EdenOne

Sorry to hear that, PJIII; that's exactly why there needs to be awareness of the stupidity of the Watchtower's stand regarding higher education. We know WHY they do it; but the youngsters within the congregations and their parents are peer-pressured and obfuscated as to the real reasons why this is done. So, make them face history.

Eden

26

Year 3: Personal Experiences

by Londo111 in

jw
friends

http://youtu.be/nnnabt9x5lm?list=plynx0om_bmgdobkrzev2tax1jzdquagy8.

this is my third year since i signed up on jwn and i wanted to do something a bit different--a slight unmasking of sorts and greet everyone face to face.

even with the help of a few notes, this is rambling, raw, and by no means the best personal experience video out there.

EdenOne

Londo, great to put a face on that avatar! Stay strong.

Eden

443

Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

by breakfast of champions in

this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

.

EdenOne

They are inadvertently admitting that they use emotional manipulation to hook JWs.

you nailed it.

Eden

32

Books about early Christianity

by EdenOne in

i've just finished reading two (imo) great books:.

"a history of christianity - the first three thousand years", by diarmaid macculloch.

"misquoting jesus", by bart ehrman.

EdenOne

Phizzy, tell me: For a Jew, is it man that outreach for God, or is it God that outreaches for mankind In the first place?

Eden

32

Books about early Christianity

by EdenOne in

i've just finished reading two (imo) great books:.

"a history of christianity - the first three thousand years", by diarmaid macculloch.

"misquoting jesus", by bart ehrman.

EdenOne

Doug, regarding the assumption that Mark and Matthew are less "Pauline" than Luke and John, and therefore, keep a more "authentic" record of the early Christian tradition, you really should read Eisenman's "James, The Brother of Jesus", because it utterly debunks that notion. Eisenman makes too much of certain "themes" and "reversions" [such as the 'cast out', 'whiteness', 'eat', etc] found in the synoptics and John, but he's absolutely thorough in demonstrating the anti-Jesus famiily [anti-Qumran] agenda that pervades Mark and Matthew. I was blown away. It's not an easy read, especially for me, a non-english native speaker, but it's based on fresh research, published very recently - and Eisenman is one of the scholars involved in the publishing of the Dead Sea Scrolls texts.

Eden

32

Books about early Christianity

by EdenOne in

i've just finished reading two (imo) great books:.

"a history of christianity - the first three thousand years", by diarmaid macculloch.

"misquoting jesus", by bart ehrman.

EdenOne

OrphanCrow, you said

you are acknowledging the importance of the Jewish faith in the develoment of the Christian religion. Therefore, I don't see how questioning the validity of the Old Testament doesn't come into play in this.

I never questioned the relevance of the Old Testament into the understanding of the Christian wordview. Like I said, the Pauline version of Christianity - or, better, Christianity IS Paul's much altered version of the Jesus movement - can stand on its own without needing theological support from the OT except to provide it context. The OT is relevant, of course, to understand the nature of the Jesus movement, because it's through and through jewish in nature. But in order to do so, one needs to handle the NT with extreme care because nearly all of it, (with the exception of James and Jude) is written under heavy Pauline point of view. And this includes the four biblical gospels.

As for the OT, the mere fact that the apocalyptical movement that Jesus came to be the symbol of FAILED in its intents and aspirations, should be a cautionary tale about taking the jewish OT as "truth". Point is, I had already discarded them even before I started my examination of the NT scripture and apocrypha. It's an interesting set of texts, some wisdom can be retrieved out of it, but I don't let it have any wheight on my worldview anymore. Sadly, I'm coming to the exact same conclusion about the NT as well.

Ps: I can see Cofty with a wicked smile saying: "told you so, Eden, told you so..."

Eden