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Eden
EdenOne
JoinedPosts by EdenOne
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43
The apparent contradiction of John 3:13
by EdenOne inthe wts uses john 3:13 to prove that before jesus no one was taken to heaven.. in the nwt, john 3:13 reads:"moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the son of man.".
notice a difference to the king james bible:.
john 3:13 - "and no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man who is in heaven.
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43
The apparent contradiction of John 3:13
by EdenOne inthe wts uses john 3:13 to prove that before jesus no one was taken to heaven.. in the nwt, john 3:13 reads:"moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the son of man.".
notice a difference to the king james bible:.
john 3:13 - "and no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man who is in heaven.
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EdenOne
The WTS uses John 3:13 to prove that before Jesus no one was taken to heaven.
In the NWT, John 3:13 reads: "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man."
Notice a difference to the King James Bible:
John 3:13 - "And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven." (King James Bible)
Notice the difference in the last bit?
In the Westcott/Hort Greek Text, the last bit is omitted; However, in all other greek texts, including Tieschendorf's, it is present.
The text presents a few difficulties:
a) It appears to indicate that Jesus has ascended to heaven sometime in the past, and descended to earth in the then present time;
b) It appears to say that no one was resurrected to heaven before Jesus
c) it appears to say that the Son of man is simultaneously on earth and in heaven.
To me, the translation that has managed to come up with the wording that expresses more correctly the overall sense of the text is this:
John 3:13: "There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven." (Weymouth New Testament)
Considering the context, Jesus wasn't talking about resurrection to heavenly life; rather, he was telling Nicodemos that he had superior credentials to any other man to talk about heavenly things because, unlike any other human currently living, he has lived in the heavens, and he has descented from his natural abode of existence down to earth, to teach people about heavens. When he said "There is no one who has gone up to heaven", given the context and the follow up of the sentence, it is understood that "There is no one who has gone up to heaven [and returned], but there is one who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man, whose home [existence] is in Heaven"
Therefore, I would translate it this way:
"No man in existence has gone up to heaven, except the Son of man who has come down, whose home is heaven"
What do you think?
Eden
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144,000 as Kings and Priests Really? or not?
by Crazyguy inin revelation chapters 7 and 14 there it talks about the 144k but says nothing of them being kings and priests.
in revelation chapter 5 and 20 it mentions ones being kings and judges, but if you notice in chapter 20 verse 4-5 it talks about martyrs coming to life judging and reigning with jesus, not the 144k specifically.
in verse 5-6 talks about the first resurrection and that all that share in this first resurrection will be priests of god and of jesus and they will reign for a thousand years.. so notice in revelation chapters 7 and 19 a great crowd is mentioned being alive standing before the throne standing at the same time as the 144k are mentioned.
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EdenOne
marked
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jw.org store in Rouen, France
by breakfast of champions inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvcvnhohno4.
naaaahh.
we're not a business.
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EdenOne
I think it's good Public Relations. But, if this is a pilot, then I must ask: Rouen, France...? Really ...??
The WT must get more inventive, since they surely realize that the efficiency of door-to-door witnessing, at least in the Western world, is showing its limitations. Publishers are getting demotivated as the results of preaching door-to-door are decreasing sharply. This could add a cool spin.
Now, if only our MESSAGE and DOCTRINE was right ... and our POLICIES were really Christian .... :) That would take a quantum leap - more than a street shop.
Eden
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33
Did Jesus lie or just changed his mind?
by EdenOne injohn 7:8-10.
"go up to the festival yourselves.
i'm not going to this festival yet, because my time has not yet fully come.
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EdenOne
To me, he changed his mind. He honestly wasn't considering going (perhaps thought it was too dangerous, there was a risk of death, and "his time hadn't come yet"), but maybe due to some divine reassurance, he decided to go, after all, taking some precautions though.
This is just an example of how the little details in the manuscripts can make a lot of difference isn't it?
And another lesson: Even Jesus CAN change his mind about some things.
Eden
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33
Did Jesus lie or just changed his mind?
by EdenOne injohn 7:8-10.
"go up to the festival yourselves.
i'm not going to this festival yet, because my time has not yet fully come.
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EdenOne
humbled,
English Standard Version:
"You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
New American Standard Bible
"Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come."
New Living Translation
"You go on. I'm not going to this festival, because my time has not yet come."
New International Version
"You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come."
Greek original: (Tischendorf)
?με?ς ?ν?βητε ε?ς τ?ν ?ορτ?ν· ?γ? ο?κ ?ναβα?νω ε?ς τ?ν ?ορτ?ν τα?την, ?τι ? ?μ?ς καιρ?ς ο?πω πεπλ?ρωται.
himeis anabete eis ten heorten ego ouk anabaino eis ten heortentauten hoti ho emos kairos oupo peplerotai
ο?κ [ouk] = No, never (strong's 3756)
ο?πω = [oupó] = Not yet (strong's 3768)
and now...?
Eden
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33
Did Jesus lie or just changed his mind?
by EdenOne injohn 7:8-10.
"go up to the festival yourselves.
i'm not going to this festival yet, because my time has not yet fully come.
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EdenOne
So, this justifies lying to a JC? ...since they're not entitled to know the truth about someone digging "apostate sites"....
Eden
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33
Did Jesus lie or just changed his mind?
by EdenOne injohn 7:8-10.
"go up to the festival yourselves.
i'm not going to this festival yet, because my time has not yet fully come.
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EdenOne
Jesus wanted to convey the impression that he wasn't going at all. He knew his brothers would give him away if he would tell them, so he kept them in the dark. That is ... clear.
Eden
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33
Did Jesus lie or just changed his mind?
by EdenOne injohn 7:8-10.
"go up to the festival yourselves.
i'm not going to this festival yet, because my time has not yet fully come.
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EdenOne
"incomplete answer", huh ....? I wonder how that would work out in a JC ....
Eden
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33
Did Jesus lie or just changed his mind?
by EdenOne injohn 7:8-10.
"go up to the festival yourselves.
i'm not going to this festival yet, because my time has not yet fully come.
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EdenOne
The consumated example of "theocratic warfare"...?
Eden