Posts by EdenOne

108

Infinity and god - why wait to create the universe?

by Simon in

here's the problem with infinity ... we can't comprehend it.. it's bad enough when it's space, but when it's time as well and then we throw in some all powerful creature supposedly existing forever ... well, it just doesn't make sense and raises questions.. such as why wait?

why didn't god create the universe the day before he did?

or the day before that?

EdenOne

You cannot extrapolate what pre-BigBang conditions were based on post-BigBang conditions

You cannot extrapolate that an environment outside of our spacetime.

We can't tell what is outside of our existing spacetime, what the conditions are, the physical rules.

you can assert that, but you have not provided any proof, either logical, mathematical or physical.

EP,

then we must agree that, since you don't have any empirical knowledge of the conditions before (or outside) the Big Bang, your speculation is as good as mine. But at least I can speculate based on empirical rules observed on the present time-space. To deny infinity based on time and space rules that are yet to be observed is ultra-speculative.

But hey ... that's just ole me saying ....

Eden

108

Infinity and god - why wait to create the universe?

by Simon in

here's the problem with infinity ... we can't comprehend it.. it's bad enough when it's space, but when it's time as well and then we throw in some all powerful creature supposedly existing forever ... well, it just doesn't make sense and raises questions.. such as why wait?

why didn't god create the universe the day before he did?

or the day before that?

EdenOne

Phizzy,

I thought many times that would be the answer ... a never ending cycle of creation / destruction of physical universes.

Eden

108

Infinity and god - why wait to create the universe?

by Simon in

here's the problem with infinity ... we can't comprehend it.. it's bad enough when it's space, but when it's time as well and then we throw in some all powerful creature supposedly existing forever ... well, it just doesn't make sense and raises questions.. such as why wait?

why didn't god create the universe the day before he did?

or the day before that?

EdenOne

EP, the problem remains.

If you unchange X, it will remain X ad eternum. But if X changed, you must conclude by deduction or observation that something caused it to change. That's the principle of causality. The absence of a cause is an impossibility in physics. The fact that presently you may be unable to identify the cause of the change in status quo of gravity that brought about the universe, doesn't render it an impossibility. There is inevitably a timelike interval between an effect and its cause, and the effect inevitably belongs to the future of its cause. Therefore, the gravitational conditions that determined the emergence of the universe necessarily had an a priori cause, and there was a time interval between the two. Therefore, time precedes the beginning of the universe. Infinity does exist. We just cannot comprehend it. And that's ok.

"The chaos is an order yet to be deciphered" - José Saramago.

Eden

108

Infinity and god - why wait to create the universe?

by Simon in

here's the problem with infinity ... we can't comprehend it.. it's bad enough when it's space, but when it's time as well and then we throw in some all powerful creature supposedly existing forever ... well, it just doesn't make sense and raises questions.. such as why wait?

why didn't god create the universe the day before he did?

or the day before that?

EdenOne

EP,

because of the necessary change in status quo of the gravity to start the universe. Either a millisecond or billions of years, there was a status quo before that moment, that got changed. Like you said, it's trivial for math, and a problem for physics. But something that physics presently cannot explain doesn't mean it's an impossibility. See, for example, the recent developments around the "dark matter" - science doesn't understand what holds this matter together, and how its elements interact with each other. Electromagnetism and gravity don't seem to apply. Does it mean it's an impossibility? No. it's just awaiting further research.

I'll give you an example of impossibility. Are you familiar with the problem of the allmightiness of God?

It goes like this: If God is all-powerful, then he could create a rock so heavy that even God cannot lift it. However, if God cannot lift it, then he's not all-powerful. But if God cannot creat a rock so heavy that even God cannot lift it, then God isn't all-powerful.

Now, that's an impossibility. Infinity isn't an imposibility. It's just a problem that presently physics aren't prepared to understand.

Eden

108

Infinity and god - why wait to create the universe?

by Simon in

here's the problem with infinity ... we can't comprehend it.. it's bad enough when it's space, but when it's time as well and then we throw in some all powerful creature supposedly existing forever ... well, it just doesn't make sense and raises questions.. such as why wait?

why didn't god create the universe the day before he did?

or the day before that?

EdenOne

Simon, by simple logic of reasoning, for sure there was a moment before gravity caused the universe and, as you put it, time, to start. Something happened that caused the change of status quo that led to the existence of the universe. It could have taken a fraction of a second; it could have been a lot more. But surely it could have been measured in time. Just because we don't understand infinity, doesn't mean it can't exist. Actually, that is why we developed the formal concept even without grasping what it really means. That's what abstract thinking is - something that humans excel at and make us truly unique.

Abstract thinking allow us to imagine concepts before they ever become verifiable by science. That's how you can formulate an hypothesis, for example. Some concepts will continue to exist only in the human mind; some will become verifiable, measurable facts. I think infinity is one such thing. Just because we don't undertsand it to the point of the very notion of it is awkward, doesn't mean it can't exist. For the time being it's a sort of chaos whose order we're yet to discern.

Eden

38

Wolf, sheep - or sheepdog?

by Nathan Natas in

jw
friends

on sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs - by ltc (ret) dave grossman, author of "on killing.

honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age.

it does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost.

EdenOne

It was not intended to be a discussion of farm dogs.

NN just had a Jesus moment: " How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread?" - Matthew 16:11

Eden

153

The antidote to the myth that JWs are declining

by slimboyfat in

one of the most persistent myths on this website is that jws are already in decline, the rot has set in, and the descent of the watchtower is inevitable from here on in.

unfortunately the facts do not bear this out.

jws are still increasing even in most developing countries, and they are still growing worldwide at a faster rate than the general population.

EdenOne

their primary growth method - having children .

But that brings up another issue. The rate of retention of those children within the org. I suspect it's sharply decreasing.

Eden

44

Brilliant video catches Governing Body red-handed ignoring their own "name-calling" warnings

by cedars in

here it is.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4sednn9nli.

.

cedars.

EdenOne

ADCMS,

make accusations against opposers/apostates but never discuss what the real issues are.

And beware, because if you happen to raise the issue by asking: "You know, they make acusations upon apostates, but they never actually say what kind of issues the apostates are talking about". You will be marked for a 'friendly' shepherding call, and will ke kept under close watch from then on.

Eden

16

Faithfull Slave Teaching Leaves something out!

by DeWandelaar in

for years the so-called faithfull slave has brainwashed us with their doctrine.

number 6 the possessions?

according to the text only the servants are being inspected!

EdenOne

To me the household represents Christianity as a whole - all religions and organizations who claim to be disciples of Christ. They are, collectively, the Lord's "household" where each individual slave serves.

Eden

4

If SOCIETY was the ANIMAL WORLD, what animals you'd see there?

by EdenOne in

i'm thinking of pink floyd's album "animals", where roger waters divided the world in three categories: sheep, dogs and pigs.

in a certain sense, brings back reminiscences of george orwell's "animal farm".. but as you look at today's society at large, if this was the animal kingdom, what animals would you see there and why?.

i'll begin with:.

EdenOne

lol...I was more thinking of the society in general.

And WHY the choice

Eden