Posts by Journeyman

68

Is JW.org going Broke?

by Vanderhoven7 in

https://youtu.be/e6gh6w7v03y.

Journeyman

I agree with JW GoneBad.

Just because an organisation has a high turnover or seemingly large income, doesn't mean it's on a sound or strong financial footing.

Given the secrecy over the org's internal accounts, we can only guess at their level of outgoings, but I would not be surprised if it's substantial enough (especially when you factor in the costs of fighting legal actions - not just on abuse but also things like planning, 'freedom of speech', etc - and paying out 'hush money', compensation, damages and/or court costs whenever they lose, which is more frequently these days) that they are in a more precarious situation than most people imagine.

They have also 'invested' badly in recent years in expensive projects like NY and Chelmsford Bethels and now Ramapo, which are largely white elephants and do not in themselves generate any financial value or income.

Even if the increase in begging videos is just a tactic to get more money without actually needing it, there are other clues. Look at the things like printing cutbacks, the mass hall sell-offs, bethel closures, the seizing of local congregations' funds, the sale of second-hand Bethel equipment, the centralising of all construction and maintenance projects, and so on. These are not the actions of a cash-rich and financially secure organisation, but rather one that is trying to squeeze every dollar/pound/euro/etc out.

45

Anthony Morris III demoted to Great Crowd!

by Vanderhoven7 in

well, that is my prediction for 2024 anyway!

hey, if watchtower can speculate..... https://youtu.be/dn8askhhwkw.

Journeyman

Someone asked me yesterday, while in mixed company (all of whom are quite PIMI), why there was emphasis on updating the Enjoy Life book and what has changed, and I matter-of-factly answered "oh, they've removed Anthony Morris from the publication in a few places, I believe".

There was an awkward silence that was only broken a minute or so later by another member of the group changing the subject.

I'm sure a lot of PIMIs suspect something is wrong, but don't want to ask questions or lift the lid.

65

WT and Higher ED

by enoughisenough in

watched this video and was wondering if any of you recall seeing this video besides on this presenter's youtube platform.

anyway, watch it !

it is disgusting but enlightening.

Journeyman

I wonder though if the Witness religion feels ‘married to’ their stand against college and is afraid to change it for fear they will look worse?

I think you're right, and that's probably also true of a lot of other controversial, unscriptural teachings that they've refused to change. There's probably an element of 'sunken cost' combined with fear of a backlash that is preventing them from having the courage to make a clean break with the past.

But the growing problems won't go away. The longer they leave addressing it, the worse it will be for them when they have to face it. And in the meantime, the more they bleed out membership and support.

I could never get over their stubborn or hypocritical stand on this.
These hypocrites are beneath contempt and there is No forgiveness for them.

For those who still believe in God and the bible at least, I think it's instructive to look at the behaviour of the religious leaders of Jesus' day and what he said he and his Father thought of them and what their outcome would be, then to compare that to the behaviour of the JW org today and ponder what those parallels might mean for the future of the GB, the 'helpers' and other members of their 'inner circle'!

48

No more public WT & Awake?

by mikeflood in

have you guys noticed, this year 2023 no more public edition magazines...i wonder how they are gonna spin that fact.

Journeyman

I can't get over the "we are pleased to inform you" part of the message. So, they're happy that they have ramped back production of the magazines from four per month to two per year?

Tonus - Yes. That had me laughing until I soiled myself.

That's one of those weasel phrases that the org sometimes uses when it's really giving news that any sensible person or group would consider a setback, or at best a reduction in hopes and expectations.

When you start to see how transparently the org try to spin every mistake, problem, reduction, reversal or failure as some kind of "positive", it begins to become a joke to spot them - like playing a form of JW-themed Buzzword Bingo. (I'm using the family-friendly name there!)

65

WT and Higher ED

by enoughisenough in

watched this video and was wondering if any of you recall seeing this video besides on this presenter's youtube platform.

anyway, watch it !

it is disgusting but enlightening.

Journeyman

The whole higher education "problem" is one of those amazing self-inflicted wounds (like the interminable wrangling over brothers with beards) that has absolutely no foundation in scripture but has been concocted into some huge controversial challenge and test of conscience, obedience, faith and integrity over which pages of commentary and hours of talks and videos have been needlessly produced (and of course, as a consequence, untold anxiety, anger and distress caused to many brothers and sisters).

If the GB took a step back and looked more objectively at those kind of "self-inflicted wound" issues, they'd see that they are causing far more "reproach on Jehovah's name" and damage to the congregations by using the sledgehammer of congregational discipline to constantly slam down on them.

If they simply made higher education a matter of personal choice and conscience, perhaps just with an occasional talk about being careful to be balanced in one's future choices, and only involve elders in 'extreme' cases - like, I dunno, if someone was studying Wiccan studies with an optional module of Porneia or something! I jest, but you get the point. There are some options around higher education which may not be wise for a Christian, but to pretty much outlaw it all and to punish the parents for their teen's educational choices, is unreasonable, in the same way that trying to restrict all entertainment just because some entertainment choices might be bad would also be crazy. The org has rolled back over the years on the subject of entertainment, to be much less proscriptive and rules-based - they really need to take the same position on these other issues.

They would save members of the congregations a lot of stress (being 'disciplined' for entirely understandable life choices).

They would save bodies of elders a lot of stress (being expected to 'enforce' unreasonable rules).

In the longer term, they would even benefit the org (happier members of the congregations able to exercise their choice, and having the potential for better income and knowledge, which could feed back into the org itself, as with other religious groups who do encourage education)

And more importantly from a spiritual viewpoint, they would stop going "beyond what is written" in the bible and bringing dishonour on God by creating this unnecessary "stumbling block" that has caused a lot of people to quit or be discouraged.

However, I suspect this will be another one of those areas where the stubbornness of the GB will end up being more damaging, to the organisation's cost.

15

Our Kingdom Ministry

by NotFormer in

my understanding was that this was the magazine regularly published for insiders only, unlike the watchtower and the awake!

looking online, it seems that the wt ceased publication of this in 2016. is it due to a name change (it seems to have changed its name several times over the years) or has it been succeeded by a new publication?

or has it ceased to be?.

Journeyman

Counsel is from a small 24 page booklet, "Apply yourself to reading and teaching". Gone are the days of Qualified to be Ministers etc.

Oh yes, that's a whole other subject! How many different guides/textbooks they've been through for 'counsel'. For years they settled on the "Theocratic Ministry School Guidebook", a small maroon-covered book which was actually quite good for instructing on public speaking. (One of the few things many exJWs feel they benefited from after years in the org).

Then they went crazy and had about three different books within around ten years, getting progressively slimmer until they settled on the thin booklet St. George mentions which they use now.

As an example of how dumbed down the 'counsel' is these days, I've copied this from a page on Appropriate Use of Visual Aids:

"Make sure your listeners can see the visual aid"..."When playing a video, turn the screen to face your listener" - Genius level stuff, eh?

Incidentally, the electronic copy of the Meeting Workbook outlining all the midweek meetings is on the JW website these days - here's what this week's meeting schedule is (just copy the link below and remove the B from .borg). You can even see what the points of counsel are, if you want to compare and contrast with how it used to be.
https://www.jw.borg/en/library/jw-meeting-workbook/july-august-2023-mwb/Life-and-Ministry-Meeting-Schedule-for-August-7-13-2023/

27

Jws getting drunk

by Farmer Jim1 in

jw
friends

has anyone got any good 'jws and alcohol' stories?

i always found it amazing that so many jws got blind drunk at parties and got away with it!

i suppose alcohol was the only fun thing we were allowed to partake in....

Journeyman

I know that you didn't ask the question, but whatever did happen to Andy Capp?

He's still alive and well and being depressingly northern in The Daily Mirror, among other places!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/cartoons/andy-capp/

The original artist/cartoonist died in 1998 and there have been several others since but they've maintained the original style.

15

Our Kingdom Ministry

by NotFormer in

my understanding was that this was the magazine regularly published for insiders only, unlike the watchtower and the awake!

looking online, it seems that the wt ceased publication of this in 2016. is it due to a name change (it seems to have changed its name several times over the years) or has it been succeeded by a new publication?

or has it ceased to be?.

Journeyman

Our Kingdom Ministry (OKM) became the Meeting Workbook (MWB) when the whole midweek meeting was revamped in 2016. The programme is very different.

And IMO, yes it's another indication of the slow death of the org. The midweek meeting is completely dumbed down now.

It used to be in two halves - Theocratic Ministry School and Service Meeting.

Now it's nominally in three parts (although the division between the first two is not clear) - "Treasures from God's Word", "Apply Yourself to the Field Ministry" and "Living as Christians" (yes, that's really what they're all called)

Here's a summary of what the midweek meeting is now (I'm sure others will add to this or correct me if I've missed anything out):

Opening song and prayer
Opening comments (1 minute) Basically a filler/time-waster IMO, but intended to 'whet the appetite' for 'highlights' to come. Might serve the purpose of giving the brother doing the next bit a few extra seconds to rush through the door if he's late I suppose...
1) Treasures from God's Word section
Themed talk by elder or MS, basically the old instruction talk - but shorter and almost entirely scripted from the MWB. Sometimes might be a video. (10 minutes)

"Spiritual gems" - taken by another elder or MS, basically the old Bible highlights but members of the congregation get to comment on what they liked from the week's bible reading instead of him choosing them. It has a single scripted question from the workbook first though, so depending how long the brother takes over that, there might not be much time for individuals to choose their own highlights. (10 minutes)

Bible reading - as with the old meeting, a young or less experienced brother reads a portion of the bible. However, unlike the old days, he does not have to make an introduction and conclusion - literally just read the passage assigned.

2) Apply Yourself to the Field Ministry section
A watered down version of the old Theocratic School (approx 15 minutes in total).

Every month, features a video in silhouettes of how to present the offer of the month on first call, and on a later week, the return visit.

Also features selected local sisters or brothers doing an initial call or return visit demo, each usually about 2-4 minutes long. (Like the old School assignments basically).

A talk - like the old number 4 talk for brothers, but again, shorter, about 5 minutes, with a theme and material given from a past WT magazine, so less time and less room for the bro to develop his own material than in the past.

After that a mid-meeting song, then:

3) Living as Christians section
Basically like the old Service Meeting (but of course, dumbed down)
From what I can tell, these are all conducted usually by elders unlike the old Service Meeting where parts were often given to min servants, but maybe an MS might get a part if he's 'experienced' or there's a shortage of elders.
3.1) 15 minutes that could consist of:

A video - if short, with some Q&A from the audience, or if longer, just an elder or MS who gets up, introduces it, sits down, then gets up at the end to hand back to the chairman!

A couple of shorter items, maybe a Local Needs (they still have those) and/or something based on a short Workbook article.

3.2) Congregation Book Bible Study
The old book study that used to be held on a separate midweek evening, now shortened and tacked on the end. (30 minutes)

Concluding comments (3 minutes) - more time wasted just summarising some points from any of the three parts that went before. Any announcements (including long letters from the branch, accounts report, etc) are expected to be squeezed in here too, so often 1) the book study is shortened even more, and 2) the meeting still runs over time!

Concluding song, prayer and everyone gets outta there tired and desperate to get home!

One of the few mercies of the new meeting format is the death of the Written Review - or as some used to call it, the Rotten Review!

2

Shock Poll: 39% of JW's Do Not Beleive in Absolute Moral Standards

by Sea Breeze in

i found this statistic (and others) surprising.

from pew research:.

.

Journeyman

Presumably, this is data only from the USA, so although it covers the single largest national population of JWs, it still only reflects 14% of the total (based on the 2022 service year report of 8.7m publishers worldwide and 1.2m in the USA). Even so, there were indeed some surprises in that data.

The Belief in absolute standards of right and wrong one I can understand somewhat if you take into account the number of things which are said to be "conscience matters" or which differ according to context.

For example: If you ask "Is it wrong to kill a person?", then a JW might say "it depends", meaning that it depends on 1) whether it's God or man doing the killing, 2) whether the killing was done in the past by, say, Samson or David or one of the ancient Bible characters (good), or in modern times by some other random person (bad), etc, etc.

So potentially lots of 'wriggle room' there.

However, two other answers surprised me more:

Under Marital status among Jehovah's Witnesses:

The percentage who said they were "living with a partner" jumped from 1% to 5% between 2007 and 2014. That must have caused a few headaches for bodies of elders!

The most surprising figure for me though, is under Belief in Heaven among Jehovah's Witnesses:

Only 46-50% said they believe in heaven? I wonder if that's down to how the question was asked or interpreted?

I can understand a JW answering "No" if they think the question is asking whether they believe in a place where they will go after death to play a harp and sit around on a cloud or whatever, but if that many really intended to say they did not believe in, or do not know if there is, a realm where God and other spirit beings live, I find that very surprising. I'd want to see exactly what the question was for that one.

48

No more public WT & Awake?

by mikeflood in

have you guys noticed, this year 2023 no more public edition magazines...i wonder how they are gonna spin that fact.

Journeyman

Here's a snippet from a BoE letter which I found after having a rummage in my ganderbag* that shows the pattern will be repeated next year - at least partially (although the 'original' issue will be released at a different time of year). Not sure where I got this. I think it was a cutting from the reddit forum. But I'm sure Atlantis has these letters anyway!