Unclepenn1

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Posts by Unclepenn1

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  34

  Why the bible does'nt make sense to me

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for some odd reason this morning when i woke up the first thing that came into my mind was the suffering and pain that humans deal with on a daily basis.

  again i'm not really sure what made me think about that so early in the morning.

  (maybe it was a dream i had).

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  Unclepenn1

  Crownboy, I want to answer this but I have no time right now. I will have to do it tonight.

  Thanks for the conversation,

  Penn
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  34

  Why the bible does'nt make sense to me

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for some odd reason this morning when i woke up the first thing that came into my mind was the suffering and pain that humans deal with on a daily basis.

  again i'm not really sure what made me think about that so early in the morning.

  (maybe it was a dream i had).

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  Unclepenn1

  >It's like a multiple choice exam; you can pick any answer you like, it's your "free will", but the teacher will only accept one answer as correct, so do you really have multiple choices?

  I dont think that is an apt description of free will. You are free to choose right and wrong. The guys in the Taliban chose to crash into the World Trade Center. They knew in their hearts it was wrong, just like you know it is wrong to sleep with your friends wife behind his back. You can find ways to justify it in your mind, but that does not change the fact that it is wrong. Does God just overlook evil and pretend it doesn't happen? Or does He meet out justice and irradicate evil? You have the choice and you control your destiny. What is so bad about that?

  Penn
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  66

  ex-JW Christians Suck!

  by mikepence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there, i said it.. how can you leave one brainwashing controlling world view and dive right into another?!.

  duh!!!.

  see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17131&site=3 for a great example of why they suck.. aaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!.

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  Unclepenn1

  Oh yea, could you define Fundamentalism for me. Thanks :)

  Mulan wrote > If they just gave it some time, they might realize they don't need religion to be happy.

  Who needs religion to be happy?

  Penn
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  66

  ex-JW Christians Suck!

  by mikepence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there, i said it.. how can you leave one brainwashing controlling world view and dive right into another?!.

  duh!!!.

  see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17131&site=3 for a great example of why they suck.. aaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!.

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  Unclepenn1

  Ofc, well put. Exactly what I wanted to say. WHat is wrong with a person who is entangled in a false religion and comes to know the Living God? Sounds good to me. I am a Christian and I have no idea what this 'controlling world view' is that you speak of. I have freedom in Christ. Prior to that I lived in a self made prison of alcohol, drugs, and whatever I desired. Now I am free from all that. You have it backwards my friend. And BTW, I do not think that you suck.

  Warm Regards,

  Penn
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  34

  Why the bible does'nt make sense to me

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for some odd reason this morning when i woke up the first thing that came into my mind was the suffering and pain that humans deal with on a daily basis.

  again i'm not really sure what made me think about that so early in the morning.

  (maybe it was a dream i had).

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  Unclepenn1

  >So with all of those odds stacked up against us, according to the bible we're supposed to ignore all fleshly desires and imitate Jesus a man who was created in perfection.

  Leander, I think your ideas are a bit flawed in this post. We are not asked to just have 'will power' or anything like that. The Holy Spirit has been given to change our desires from serving Satan to serving God. Before I knew Christ I smoked and drank alcohol every day. I used drugs and many other things to keep myself enslaved to my desires. When I got saved, God freed me from those desires. I don't have to get nervous if I am around a bunch of alcohol or drugs. I dont desire that anymore, He changed me from the inside. That is what God wants to do, transform our hearts to serve and please Him. Not by rigorous religious works, but by His Spirit. Interesting topic. Also, God is not just trying to prove a point to mankind or the devil, He has given us freewill and we decide to choose God or reject Him. Are you not pleased with the fact that God gave you freewill and didn't make you like a chatty Kathy doll, when you pull the string you would say "I love you Lord". Instead He gave you a mind, a conscience and a choice. Choose Christ or reject Him. Salvation waits in the balance. I would love to tell you more about it. Email me if you like ( [email protected])

  Penn
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  58

  Do You Still Believe a God Cares for You?

  by JosephAlward in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been a part of this forum for about one month, and during that time i've been struck by the willingness of many so former jehovah witnesses either to ridicule the bible, or to stand by while it's being ridiculed.

  so, i'm wondering how many of them while witnesses suffered through experiences so searing that they no longer believe in the god of the old testament.. who among you still believe that underneath the layers of contradictions, inconsistencies, and errors in the bible there may be found the words of a god who created the universe, and who also cares about you, personally?.

  joseph f. alward.

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  Unclepenn1

  oops! email address is [email protected]

  (fingers are a bit slow today)
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  58

  Do You Still Believe a God Cares for You?

  by JosephAlward in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been a part of this forum for about one month, and during that time i've been struck by the willingness of many so former jehovah witnesses either to ridicule the bible, or to stand by while it's being ridiculed.

  so, i'm wondering how many of them while witnesses suffered through experiences so searing that they no longer believe in the god of the old testament.. who among you still believe that underneath the layers of contradictions, inconsistencies, and errors in the bible there may be found the words of a god who created the universe, and who also cares about you, personally?.

  joseph f. alward.

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  Unclepenn1

  SS, Mexico was awesome! Cancun is the most beautiful place on earth. Truly astounding. Crystal blue bathwater warm oceans. Loved it!

  Perhaps we can discuss other things in the future. I like the way you come across in your posts. Respectable and sincere. A rarity it seems in these here parts :) If you ever want to rap, email me. ( [email protected])

  Zanex. Our discussion was about the God who was revealed in the person of Jesus Christ. It had nothing to do with the WT religion (just to clarify.) But let me ask you this. How do you think Jesus would react to the way JW's treat each other and how would He feel about their doctrines and, also, what do you think about the way He treated people? Love to hear your reply.

  Penn
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  23

  Elders called-Want to 'get together'....Hmmmmm

  by ashitaka in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ....so i said, 'sure, that's a possibility', and hung up.

  lololol.

  true story.

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  Unclepenn1

  Hey Ashi, if you could videotape the encounter that would be Sa-weet! I have one from Gloria Muscarella that is about 4+ hours long and it is so interesting watching these guys squirm as she hits them with real ltruth. What you should do is gather all the facts about the UN thing that you can and other blatant deceptions and spring it on them while taping it. I would love to see it. Also check out disfellowshipped.org and read those encounters. Get really good at refuting them and just have fun with it. Oh yes, and let all of us see it too!

  Penn

  Hey SS, I just replied to our discussion. Sorry, I have been in Mexico for a week. Peace

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=15723&page=3&site=3
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  58

  Do You Still Believe a God Cares for You?

  by JosephAlward in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been a part of this forum for about one month, and during that time i've been struck by the willingness of many so former jehovah witnesses either to ridicule the bible, or to stand by while it's being ridiculed.

  so, i'm wondering how many of them while witnesses suffered through experiences so searing that they no longer believe in the god of the old testament.. who among you still believe that underneath the layers of contradictions, inconsistencies, and errors in the bible there may be found the words of a god who created the universe, and who also cares about you, personally?.

  joseph f. alward.

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  Unclepenn1

  >This discussion was about unconditional love....[edit]...Thus you have not been discussing unconditional love.

  The discussion was not about unconditional love. I never even mentioned the word. I also think it is a concept foreign to the Bible. God loves with an everlasting love and His love is unfailing, but never does the Bible say that God's love is unconditional. I thought we were talking about love and what true love is. You kept bringing up the uncondtional thing and I said that it is not love to turn aside evil and ignore injustice. (I'll tell you what, how about you answer this question and we will go from there.' If I murder you, is that loving you?. Go ahead and answer that and we can move on to God's love next. I just want to codify man's definition of love first. How can we try and tackle the concept of God's love if we cannot agree on man's love first? Sound good?)

  John9:2,3 Jesus healing the man born blind, and the disciples asking him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" They thought his blindness was a result of sin. They thought it could have been a result of his his own sin. If so, the sin would have nessesarily preceded his birth, at which time the results of the sin ie blindness was apparent, so sin would have been commited, in their opinion, either in the womb or before conception - you decide.

  I'll tell you what SS, I will even grant you this one. Let's say that the disciples did believe in reincarnation, that is different however from the Bible teaching reincarnation. Jesus never gives an affirmative that their supposed reincarnation view was correct. Instead, he replies with 'neither'. Now if you are going to argue that his silence makes it a possibility, let me give you this analogy. Let's say I were to ask you, 'SS, do you hang out on this MB because you are a homosexual, or because you hate exJw's?' and your answer was 'neither, it is because I used to be a JW that I enjoy this MB'. Would your silence then make my assertion true? That you are a homosexual? No, it would only mean that I gave you a faulty dilemma and you are neither of the things I mentioned. In the same way was the question proposed to Jesus. And as far as the John the Baptist/Elijah thing goes, I think it's a total stretch and if you want the Bible to teach reincarnation, you will have to have a myriad more examples than just a few stray ones that are ambiguous at best.

  >You have the catholic church to thank for the absence of reincarnation in the christian corpus.

  Really!? What if you are looking at it the wrong way. What if the Bible never taught reincarnation and these false teachings were creeping into the church (which 26 of the 27 books of the NT warn about) and let's just say that in the 5th gen council it was established as heresy to keep the church from false teaching. Isn't that another way to look at it? Is it possible that the Bible doesn't teach reincarnatrion and that the church put it in the heresy category (and rightfully so) to keep others from being misled?

  >Heb 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once' Didn't lazarus and all the other resurectees die twice?

  Yes Lazarus was raised again, so was the widow's son in 1 Kings. Enoch never died and Elijah never died either. Hebrews said that it is appointed for man to die one and then judgement. First of all, this kind of strips away the reincarnation argument. Secondly, it is the rule, not the exception. Mankind will die and face judgement, it is a fact. God kept two men from death and another few He let live a little longer. That does not negate the fact that there will be a judgement. It just means that God chose to deal with a few exceptions in a different manner. Don't worry, they will have to give an account also.

  Thanks for the conversation. Looking forward to a response.

  Penn
• 
  58

  Do You Still Believe a God Cares for You?

  by JosephAlward in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been a part of this forum for about one month, and during that time i've been struck by the willingness of many so former jehovah witnesses either to ridicule the bible, or to stand by while it's being ridiculed.

  so, i'm wondering how many of them while witnesses suffered through experiences so searing that they no longer believe in the god of the old testament.. who among you still believe that underneath the layers of contradictions, inconsistencies, and errors in the bible there may be found the words of a god who created the universe, and who also cares about you, personally?.

  joseph f. alward.

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• 

  Unclepenn1

  >This discussion was about unconditional love....[edit]...Thus you have not been discussing unconditional love.

  The discussion was not about unconditional love. I never even mentioned the word. I also think it is a concept foreign to the Bible. God loves with an everlasting love and His love is unfailing, but never does the Bible say that God's love is unconditional. I thought we were talking about love and what true love is. You kept bringing up the uncondtional thing and I said that it is not love to turn aside evil and ignore injustice. (I'll tell you what, how about you answer this question and we will go from there.' If I murder you, is that loving you?. Go ahead and answer that and we can move on to God's love next. I just want to codify man's definition of love first. How can we try and tackle the concept of God's love if we cannot agree on man's love first? Sound good?)

  John9:2,3 Jesus healing the man born blind, and the disciples asking him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" They thought his blindness was a result of sin. They thought it could have been a result of his his own sin. If so, the sin would have nessesarily preceded his birth, at which time the results of the sin ie blindness was apparent, so sin would have been commited, in their opinion, either in the womb or before conception - you decide.

  I'll tell you what SS, I will even grant you this one. Let's say that the disciples did believe in reincarnation, that is different however from the Bible teaching reincarnation. Jesus never gives an affirmative that their supposed reincarnation view was correct. Instead, he replies with 'neither'. Now if you are going to argue that his silence makes it a possibility, let me give you this analogy. Let's say I were to ask you, 'SS, do you hang out on this MB because you are a homosexual, or because you hate exJw's?' and your answer was 'neither, it is because I used to be a JW that I enjoy this MB'. Would your silence then make my assertion true? That you are a homosexual? No, it would only mean that I gave you a faulty dilemma and you are neither of the things I mentioned. In the same way was the question proposed to Jesus. And as far as the John the Baptist/Elijah thing goes, I think it's a total stretch and if you want the Bible to teach reincarnation, you will have to have a myriad more examples than just a few stray ones that are ambiguous at best.

  >You have the catholic church to thank for the absence of reincarnation in the christian corpus.

  Really!? What if you are looking at it the wrong way. What if the Bible never taught reincarnation and these false teachings were creeping into the church (which 26 of the 27 books of the NT warn about) and let's just say that in the 5th gen council it was established as heresy to keep the church from false teaching. Isn't that another way to look at it? Is it possible that the Bible doesn't teach reincarnatrion and that the church put it in the heresy category (and rightfully so) to keep others from being misled?

  >Heb 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once' Didn't lazarus and all the other resurectees die twice?

  Yes Lazarus was raised again, so was the widow's son in 1 Kings. Enoch never died and Elijah never died either. Hebrews said that it is appointed for man to die one and then judgement. First of all, this kind of strips away the reincarnation argument. Secondly, it is the rule, not the exception. Mankind will die and face judgement, it is a fact. God kept two men from death and another few He let live a little longer. That does not negate the fact that there will be a judgement. It just means that God chose to deal with a few exceptions in a different manner. Don't worry, they will have to give an account also.

  Thanks for the conversation. Looking forward to a response.

  Penn