Posts by Ustabee

9

To speak or not to speak !!!

by jurs in

jw
friends

here is a question for those who are either df'd or da'd.

what do you do when you run into a jw at the store ?

do you turn your head and pretend you didn't see them ?

I've been DF'd for about 3 years. I live in a small town, (about 20,000)and occasionally will run into JW's I know. Generally, I just return the blank stare they give me. I couldn't care less if they want to smile or say 'Hi' or anything else. Of course, I generally have a grumpy look on my face, anyway.[;-)]

One thing for sure, my house is evidently marked because my Non JW wife never has seen them in the door to door in our neighborhood. So much for 'preaching the good news' to all sorts of people.

42

Disfellowship?????????????????????

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

today's study topic included disfellowship.

i'm a little confused i was told that the only way you can be disfellowshipped was if you did something you knew went agains jehovah and would not repent for it.

but the only person you can repent to is jehovah......... then i was told that the elders can however "keep the flock pure" b/c if jehovah is not happy with the congregation he can take his holy spirit away.

Ustabee

Tattoo:

You keep asking those questions. Re: Disfellowshipping, the posts from various ones on this issue are exactly what happens. In a lot of cases, repentance can have little to do with it. Cong politics and personal preferences of the comm and 'how many people know about this?' are issues that often overrule any 'mercy' or concern for the individual and their circumstances. The WT literature paints a very rosy picture of cong discipline, but in reality, it rarely works the way it portrayed by the WT. I have seen children of elders dealt with lightly while others guilty of the same infraction and just as 'repentant', DF'd and cast out in one hearing.

YHWHwho's comments regarding treatment of family members of DF'd ones is right on the money. And, interestingly, the WT mag always speaks against this very thing, but in practice, the whole family is DF'd in many cases.

GodRules is speaking from his experience, I would assume. However, let him be on the recieving end of a JC and he would likely sing a different tune, as I did.

I have to disagree with his statement about talking with disfellowshipped ones who have been reinstated, it is a very humiliating process and in order for you to be reinstated you must 'toe the line' and upon reinstatement that 'toeing' has to continue. Being honest in your feelings about how you were treated and what happened to you is not the answers to questions that will allow you to regain any priveleges in the cong. Many times, the reinstated one is forbidden to even comment at the meetings until a prescribed period of time has passed, sometimes months, or even years.
And you are often viewed by the cong as 'weak' from that point on and often, the fellowship of the cong is only slightly better than it was when you were in a DF'd state. It is never the same after one has been DF'd and reinstated. In most cases, if the DF'd may have occupied a position of responsibility in the cong, he never regains that position because, he has 'lost the respect' of the cong. In the cases I personally knew about, the BOE typically felt that 10 years was the period they wanted to wait before even considering such a person for appointment to any responsibilities.

Repentance before God is one thing, repentance before the Elders is quite another. I remember being told over and over again, "Just because they cry and carry on, doesn't mean they are truly repentant."
Or, 'They are more grief-stricken about being caught than repentant over the wrongdoing.' This in many cases where no one knew about the sin and the person came forward and confessed it.

Disfellowshipping sounds fine in theory but the application of it in the JW's is so far from perfect that it actually creates far more harm than good.

9

Days like that of Noah article...

by TheApostleAK in

jw
friends

"shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in jehovah's organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting.".

if chitty was gay, greenlees was a pedo.

then who in the borg was doing the wife swapping??.

Ustabee

I remember in the cong in VA where I was attending when first studying, two of the elders and their wives were DF'd. When I foolishly asked 'Why?' the answer was 'wife-swapping'. I do remember thinking at the time that one elder sure got the short end of the swap. This was in '77 or '78, could they have been part of the 'Great Remove' of the late '70's and early 80's? Makes you think.

37

Can anyone help me?

by aud8 in

can anyone out there ease my mind?

i am about to disassociate myself and feel so scared.

what if i'm making the wrong decision?

Ustabee

aud8:

I spent many years in the org and tried to 'fade away'. Worked for a while, but I live in a small town and it was hard to fade. At any rate, you will come to realize a lot of things over the next few months. Your family being out will be a real blessing, as it has been for me. I never realized just how much I would cherish the freedom of not having to worry about Armageddon. The phrase, "Been down so long, looks like up to me" comes to mind. In other words, you live your life in a certain way for a long time, changing that life pattern is very traumatic at first. Hang in there, most of us on this board have been through the same thing.

15

Yet another caption contest

by bboyneko in

jw
friends

let's see how much fun we can have with this one:.

Ustabee

Pardon me, Ma'am, Do you know the meaning of the Lord's Prayer?

7

Husband to meet the enemy

by Daisymay in

jw
friends

i will be traveling to ca w/my husband soon.

for part of the trip, we plan to stay w/ my jw aunt and uncle.

they are very supportive of me and i'm still their favorite niece - even though i am technically "bad association".

Ustabee

Have him say, "I've been reading a very good book by Ray Franz, 'Crisis of Conscience', have you read it yet? It's very informative about the Watchtower Society's inner workings." Might want to find a convenient motel after that.

36

Special Judicial Committees

by JEMIMAH in

jw
friends

you will have to understand that i have to change a few details here and there so that i can't be identified.. as many of you are aware i serve as an elder, and from time to time i have been asked by the service desk to handle matters for them by means of "the special committee arrangement".

(a phrase you will not find in any wt letter or elders textbook.

) just to explain.. "a special committee is often set up when, an original committee (ojc)decides to disfellowship an individual, who then appeals against the judgement.

Ustabee

Jemimah:

Also having served as an elder and sat in on a few committees, and then having been DF'd myself, I think I have a unique perspective to offer on this issue. Here goes:

In all the committees I sat on, the only reason the person was there was because they had 'confessed' some serious sin. Usually, these persons were considered 'weak' by the BOE. If they weren't repentant about the sin, why did they 'confess' and face a committee? The ones who didn't care what we did or said, usually didn't meet with us, anyway. Case closed. I always wondered, 'Why are we thinking about DF'ing this person when it is so obvious that they need help and support, not 'the spritual axe.''

I'm sure you've heard the old saw, "They need to be taught a lesson, and this is the only thing that will wake them up." Hogwash! Cutting someone off from their family and support structure really teaches them a lesson all right. In almost every case of DF'g in my 22 yrs in the JW's, it did more harm than good. The DF'd individual never recovered from the humiliation it caused. And let me tell you, it is the most humiliating thing to have to come into the KH and sit in the back and ignore people you thought were your closest friends, ["Closer even than a brother."] And have them ignore you like you were an invisible ghost. To get reinstated, you have to grovel and whine like a baby to even to get a hearing.

In one case, a brother had been DF'd by an out of state cong, after 2 or 3 yrs, the guy applied to us for reinstatement. We recommended it to the other cong. Guess what? No go! "Not enough time" Here this poor guy was in our cong, hadn't been anywhere near the other BOE for years and they knew better than we did! So, he writes the WTS in Brooklyn, lo and behold! two months later here comes a letter from the BOE in the other cong, 'We have considered Bro. 'Bad Guy's' letter for reinstatement and have decided to reinstate him.' If the guy hadn't got their 'bags' in a wringer with the CO and DO, he would still be waiting for reinstatement.

In a nutshell, the Judicial Arrangement is full of @##!. It is impossible for imperfect men to render a perfect decision. It causes more problems than it solves; and, it is heartlessly administered by the untrained and underinformed. In those 22 years, I never saw a case where the cong needed to be 'protected'from an individual who had come to the BOE with the problem. Most of the time, the 'practicer of sin' had quit attending the meetings and didn't want anything more to do with the cong. So why DF them? Gotta keep things 'clean.'

You are quite right to be questioning the Judicial Arrangement, it is just what some of the other posters have called it. Look at it from the other side of the fence and you will gain a new insight.

Good Luck!

16

1st door-to-door?

by Moxy in

jw
friends

the society tries very hard to present the idea that the door-to-door work was essentially the same in the 1st century as now.

the rendering of 'door to door' in ac5:42 creates that impression.

so do the talks that discuss the missionary efforts then in modern terms (eg "paul was making a return visit here on an interested one") philo's hospitality question earlier shows that we have all been a bit taken in by this.. wt covers like this (4/1/01) sure help too:.

Ustabee

If you look really closely, you can see the blue smoke from the '81 Maverick parked in the drive.

6

Said Goodbye

by Ustabee in

after lurking around myself and posting in reply to norm.

i decided i'd better try to explain my personal view toward the wts.

i was baptized in 1976 and, over the years, served as a ms and elder.

Ustabee

Yep, they came bouncing in and announced themselves to the reception desk (three staff members on duty) and my secretary comes back and says , "Mr. So and So and Mr. Such and Such are here to see you." I couldn't believe it!

Yes, it is great my kids are out, too. I have four JW's that work for me, and they all treat me with respect. Of course, I sign their paychecks, but one who was an MS is no longer attending the meetings and wears a stud in his lower lip and a goatee. He asked me if the stud would cause problems for him at work, naturally, I said no. Turns out his elder father was removed from the body because he told the rest of the body that they were putting the WTS over Jehovah. Got him off the body so fast! On top of that, the 'studded one'is married to a sister and one of the elders supposedly made advances to this sister at the KH! Good Gawd! I remember thinking when he told me this that I would have probably had to just naturally whip this elder's ass! This is the spiritual paradise we hear so much about!

Yesterday, I went to the market and as I walk in the door here comes a brother who was a 'friend' of mine coming out the door. Looked right through me. Thanks, buddy! Good riddance, I say!

Jeez, I need to get off my soapbox!

16

1st door-to-door?

by Moxy in

jw
friends

the society tries very hard to present the idea that the door-to-door work was essentially the same in the 1st century as now.

the rendering of 'door to door' in ac5:42 creates that impression.

so do the talks that discuss the missionary efforts then in modern terms (eg "paul was making a return visit here on an interested one") philo's hospitality question earlier shows that we have all been a bit taken in by this.. wt covers like this (4/1/01) sure help too:.

Ustabee

This doesn't look anything like my door to door experiences. The householder actually looks like he's LISTENING! That can't be!