never place a period where god has placed a comma.
gracie allen.
this forum is an excellent domain for the expression of subjective and relative truths.
Thanks to all for your kind remarks.
Pat it is not necesary to belive in God to have fourth position view. You may take the view as a historian as a world leader or the like. The utility of this view is that it has no feelings whatsoever associated with it. This provides total objectivity yada yada yada.
Vic
never place a period where god has placed a comma.
gracie allen.
this forum is an excellent domain for the expression of subjective and relative truths.
“Never place a period where God has placed a comma.” Gracie Allen
This forum is an excellent domain for the expression of subjective and relative truths. Some people defend their subjective truths tooth and nail as though they were the only truth. What is the reason for this and how can we better understand each other in our evolutionary journey beyond the Watchtower?
The mythological Solomon was said to be the wisest man on earth, if we examine the story of the women who fought over the same child, we find he had the ability to have multiple perceptual views. This is the pattern of wisdom, to be able to look at an issue or conflict from several viewpoints or paradigms, to develop greater insight and flexibility.
First position is the view we take from self. Through this lens we are seeing through a kaleidoscope of our beliefs, values, and attitudes programmed into us through our past experience. This is going to gives us a skewed perception that is generalized, deleted, and distorted based on our filters. If we attempt to make sense out of our JW experience only through this lens, we may stay stuck feeling as victims of the Tower.
Second position is the ability to step outside of our selves and look back at our selves through the eyes of our enemies. Once we do this, we get a sense of how our actions are affecting our enemies and how we are forcing them to take certain actions against us. We find examples of this in all great leaders and master teachers. Gandhi could single handedly defeat the British army by knowing them better than they knew themselves. Paul and Jesus could answer their accusers by mentally projecting themselves into their enemies and understanding their motivations. If we view ourselves through the eyes of JWs we can easily understand how JWs are victims themselves unable to freely and objectively treat us any other way other than what the Tower has mandated to them. One example of this is Viktor Frankel, he felt he had greater freedom than his Nazi captors because he was free to think for himself and find whatever meaning he chose to his hellish experience.
Third position is the ability to step into a neutral perceptual view of a person who has never been a JW and observe both our JW enemies and ourselves. From this space this person is able to see how us former JWs and current JWs are two sides of the same coin different but having the same motivations. This was the position Solomon used to resolve the conflict that allowed him to identify the real mother of the child in question. From this position we are able to transcend from victims and victimizers to a more objective view of rescuer even if that means rescuing ourselves and not staying stuck as victims of JWs. I am sure many JWs view themselves as victims of apostates, which is an indicator that they are stuck in first position view.
Fourth position allows us to view all the positions. This could be the view of God; he/she/it may be amused by the conflicts created and perpetuated by a small group of geriatric senile WASP men from New York. This position allows us to see all other religious beliefs and see the good, the beautiful, the bad, and the ugly.
If there is a moral to this post it is this, truth is relative to the perceptual view the person is taking in espousing the “truth”.
“Many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.” William James
the year is circa 1994 san antonio texas.
i am sitting in a meeting of elders, ministerial servants and circuit overseer waschak (sp?).
the final topic of a form letter from the society is sexual abuse.
The year is circa 1994 San Antonio Texas. I am sitting in a meeting of elders, ministerial servants and circuit overseer Waschak (sp?). The final topic of a form letter from the society is sexual abuse. The official instructions are to call the legal department if any sexual abuse is reported to the elders. All media inquires are to be ignored and routed to Bethel. The co goes on to relate a local case of a teenage girl who falsely reported to the authorities being abused by her father, to get even for his disciplinary actions towards her. He then went on to generalize how we had many teenage girls in the circuit who were just trouble makers using sex as a weapon. The rest of his comments were out of context and over generalized defending the society.
The manner in which this topic was covered is an example of social denial at it’s best. Just like a dysfunctional family denies any abuse to outsiders this was a dysfunctional religion hiding any abuse to outsiders and insiders to protect its image. The servants were oblivious to the mind programming being done to them to automatically react to defend this abstract society instead of having an open mind to any sexual abuse reported to them.
In working in field service that week with Waschak I got to know his personal philosophy of being anti therapy for any psychological problems. He was a victim of victimizers a follower of followers, a blue-collar worker from Arkansas who browned nosed his way to the top. I often wonder of the lives affected by this bubba mentality that repressed victims denying them professional help by their critical bias towards mental health professionals. It is no wonder JW apologists defend tooth and nail an ideology that was programmed into them.
“Few are they that look through their own eyes and feel with their own heart” A Einstein
cliff was an alcoholic who worked for a telemarketing company down the hall from my office.
every time he would see me in the hall way his eyes would light up and he would grab me to tell me the latest jokes he had.
he took it upon himself to be my source of laughter.
Jose was raised as a JW, he was on a fast track to being a stellar publisher in the congregation. He was giving number five talks at a very early age and was better than some of the older brothers. His heart was in the right place and the brothers were liberal with their accolades for his heart love for Jehovah. As fate would have it, Jose fell in love with the prettiest teenage girl in the congregating and the daughter of the presiding overseer.
The troubles and Jose’s destiny were now set in stone. The girl’s father disapproved of Jose for his daughter. He now became the brunt of discrimination on the part of the elders at the instigation of the girl’s father. He no longer got as many talks, or parts on the service meeting. His only crime was to fall in love with this pretty elder’s daughter. They both ached to fully express their adolescent love towards each other, but a father’s jealousy and his abuse of power would condemn Jose to a life of crime.
He hated her family and harbored much anger in his heart. This in time led him to join a neighborhood gang and things just escaladed down from there. His father a lowly publisher begged the elders to try and rescue Jose from this path he was put on. His request fell on deaf ears. In less than two years Jose could not be recognized from the clean cut kid who spoke of fine spiritual truths. He had grown up considerably in size and in street smarts. His arms were full of tattoos and now he was a petty drug dealer.
I came across Jose when he was put into a group of adult public offenders that I facilitated, who were on probation. As I spoke about my JW past and how past programming affects our beliefs and decisions we make as adults he seemed to play close attention and was very interactive about his criminal past. After the first group meeting he came up to me privately and shared his experience about growing up as a JW. I felt a deep sense of purpose that my past experience has not been in vain.
One day I got a call from Jose he was desperate to come see me for some personal problem. He came in with his wife and small child very anxious. He related to me that he wanted to separate from his wife to just be alone from her constant nagging. Of course I knew there was more to the story and as I probed privately, he confessed he did not love his wife but was in love with a woman at work. He was so starved for the love he had from his childhood sweetheart that if he found any semblance of it with any woman, he abandoned reason and threw common sense and caution to the wind.
They agreed to separate and she nosed dived into a state of depression. All her insecurities from her childhood were now in full bloom. I agreed to do some sessions pro bono with both, since Jose was living from paycheck to paycheck working as a Denny’s short order cook. He improved significantly and understood how his anger had driven him to the path he had been. I told him his experience was quite common and showed him how he was a victim of circumstances. He agreed to educate himself and read Crisis of Conscience. In time his love for the woman at work wore thin and he missed his child and wife so he returned back home.
I often wonder what became of Jose, having traveled a similar path in life I know the feelings of emptiness and the desperate anxiety to calm a troubled heart and soul. Wherever you are Jose, I send you my best wishes, the woman you search for is also searching for you. In order for you to manifest her you will need to slay your inner demons and rekindle that love you once had. It may take many years but the search and wait is worth any hardships you may encounter. Never give your heart to a second rate romance. You must have that youthful passion to use as a beacon of light in your darkest hours when you feel like giving up.
“All men must die, few men ever really live.” Braveheart
Victor Escalante
cliff was an alcoholic who worked for a telemarketing company down the hall from my office.
every time he would see me in the hall way his eyes would light up and he would grab me to tell me the latest jokes he had.
he took it upon himself to be my source of laughter.
Cliff was an alcoholic who worked for a telemarketing company down the hall from my office. Every time he would see me in the hall way his eyes would light up and he would grab me to tell me the latest jokes he had. He took it upon himself to be my source of laughter. Since he lived from hand to mouth and was always broke he would always borrow a 10 or a 20-dollar bill till payday. I could see the deep deep sadness and pain in Cliff’s eyes that he masked over with his jokes.
One day he knocked on my office door and asked me if I had a few minutes, as fate would have it I was available. He started by asking, “you do therapy don’t you”? I said, “yes is there something I can help you with?” He said “did you know I used to have a very good life and at one time I made a lot of money?” I listened as he continued; “I used to work as a technician and then as a manager for Mitsubishi nuclear medical equipment. He related how he loved his job but having to manage a territory that spanned half the country had ruined his life. His wife had left him for his best friend and it had just devastated him. He drowned his pain with booze leading to him being fired from this high profile job.
I felt a deep sense of compassion for Cliff or with 20/20 hindsight I don’t know if I was feeling it for me as I saw the parallels in cliffs story. He went on to relate how he turned to God and even had his own church back east. He pulled out his pastor’s laminated card. He beamed with pride; I asked him how come he left that position. He said he felt like a hypocrite to preach about the sins of drinking while he was a full-blown alcoholic behind closed doors. I told him I had just what he needed; I laid him on my bioacoustics equipment and played inspirational light music. He could not contain the heavy emotions and went into a catharsis, he cried like a lonely abandoned child. After about 30 minutes I asked him to get up and tell me about his experience. He was deeply moved and could not talk, the only thing he could utter was “I know it’s going to be ok, I know it’s going to be ok now.”
The days passed and I would see Cliff at times drunk as he staggered to work still intent on telling me jokes. Days passed and I did not see Cliff and when I asked his manager about his where abouts he denied hearing anything. About a week later he told me they had found Cliff dead from a week of binging on alcohol. I felt a deep sadness in my heart but it came as no surprise. When they tried to contact his nearest of kin, they refused to make the trip and he was cremated as a pauper.
Cliff was a troubled soul that felt unloved, unwanted, betrayed, and abandoned by his family and in the end by all. As I write this in my office, I feel his presence thanking me for that bit of joy he felt when I played the music for him. Cliff, it was a pleasure and an honor to have known you. You and I have traveled down similar paths my friend, the only real difference between you and I is I chose to live by loving myself and searching against all odds for the one woman that would complete my last part of my journey and contract with this life. If we meet again in heaven or wherever you are I hope you have some new jokes because you sure were good at telling them.
Victor Escalante
“Few are they that see with their own eyes and feel with their own heart” A Einstein
few if any would argue that the current jw theology is the byproduct of principally two men rutherford and franz.
these men took it upon themselves to create and interpret their version of divine love.
rutherford we know was an alcoholic and a rage-aholic who hated women and anyone who dared question his divine revelations.
Few if any would argue that the current JW theology is the byproduct of principally two men Rutherford and Franz. These men took it upon themselves to create and interpret their version of divine love.
Rutherford we know was an alcoholic and a rage-aholic who hated women and anyone who dared question his divine revelations. If his last days on earth are any indication of who really loved him as a human being we must conclude only his cronies who now wanted the mantle of power passed on to them. Having worked with many chemically dependent public offenders in the last two years I saw first hand how these people are starved for unconditional love. The paradox is that while these people were starved for love, most would not give it to themselves or to others. It makes you wonder what lack of love issues Rutherford suffered as a kid that would sear and seal his heart.
Enter Fred Franz, an emotionally distant and aloof theologian who would create the whole current structure of rules of conduct for the JW family life. This man never was married nor ever worked for a living in the real world. He never faced the grief of struggling financially to put food on the table and caring for his family on blue-collar wages. In his dysfunctional family he fit the role of the family hero. This type of individual represses and denies his true feelings in an effort not to feel the pain of childhood issues.
So is it any wonder that you have many JWs that in their minds are saying and acting out of toxic love thinking they are the most loving people on earth?
first of all, let me make it clear that i have left the wts, and i don't agree with its teachings (mostly, the organisation presented as "gods prophet").. i have a few family members who are jws.
does everyone here think it is loving of us to tell them all the things that the wts have done wrong?
once they realise that the wts is corrupt, they experience.
You bring up a very good question. I would ask the same question as, Is it ecological for the person to be awakened to reality? It depends on many variables, while I was still in as a JW I advised some to stay in because of the great turmoil it would bring. However some were so ready to be awakened that all it took was a little prodding. One of my clients a little old lady who was a dub for twenty five years read one of Rays books I loaned her and in one weekend packed up all her JW literature put it in boxes with a letter she wrote to the local elders telling them she wanted no part of the JWs and wanted they to leave her alone.
Victor
yep, that's right!!.
i called my mother tonight to say a friendly hello.
you guessed it.
Dear Ana,
I share in your feelings of pain. What could I say to you that would make a difference to ameliorate your pain? Let me start by telling you that this is one of the most evil aspects of mind control by JWs. Your parents lack compassion due to their emotions being controlled and their love perverted by perverted teachings of love.
Your family is simply parroting what they have been told they should do as good Christians. They are followers of followers, victims of victims that are victimizing you with their skewed view of reality.
In this forum you have found your spiritual family, we care more for you than your biological family. Your love of truth has come at a great price, it is worth every rejection you have received and will receive. When you transcend this level you will feel no pain but compassion and forgiveness for what your family has done. You are a spirit being full of love and light that when you shine on the darkness of your family they attack you.
You are currently going through an evolutionary phase and this too shall pass and refine you in your evolutionary journey. It is part of your destiny to learn the lessons firsthand that you will teach others. The school of experience is the greatest teacher but the tuition is prohibitive, you are about to graduate with honors, your date with destiny awaits you go forward.
this post is in response to another post to answer a question from stealth.
please excuse any typos, this pc does not have a word processor with spell check.. therapies are as varied and as common as religions.
in my own experience i have a bias for cognitive therapy, nlp, and eriksonian hypnosis.
This post is in response to another post to answer a question from stealth. Please excuse any typos, this pc does not have a word processor with spell check.
Therapies are as varied and as common as religions. In my own experience I have a bias for cognitive therapy, NLP, and Eriksonian hypnosis. This is not to say that the rest do not work, they do, once you find a really skilled therapist. A therapist with a personal history of cult mind control who has aquired the expertise to help others is as rare as finding a certain straw in a haystack, very few and far between.
Helping other ex JWs has been a dream of mine as some of you remember my post on "The Wall that heals". Next year I will finnally finish my self help book for ex jws. One way I envision helping Watchtower victims is doing workshops much like I have been doing here in West TExas for the last two years, worldwide.
Can you ever really fill in change or heal developmental gaps? In my experience yes, one way of looking at this is, is, if you were to bypass some years in school you would lack certain subjects that would leave you at a disadvantage in your career. Only by taking those subjects could you ever be a well rounded person to understand yourself, others and the world.
Whatever you lack or need to work through to acquire the skills, lessons, resources, etc. to be a "healthy spiritual person" will create a energetic magnetic field to attract and repel people and situations into your life. I used the JWs as the school for me to learn to love myself, I made them my surrogate father. Some other important lessons the JWs helped me with was the desperation to motivate me to educate myself to carry out my calling in life. While my JW experience was no bed of roses today I'm a better person having lived through it.
Just like Viktor Frankol found meaning in his Nazi experience I also had to do the same and in my workshops I ask others to do the same. Fine the higher purpose for their hellish life experiences.
"Where the world ceases to be the scene of our hopes and wishes, where we face it as free beings observing asking, admiring, there we enter the real of art and science." A Einstein
Victor Escalante
this post is an attempt to explain the paradoxical return of ex-jws back to the watchtower.
my premise is that a persons unconscious mind has a positive intent in leading them back to the former environment and the intent is of intrinsic value within individuals.. developmental psychology tells us there are six primary developmental stages in a persons life.
if a person experiences developmental gaps or underdevelopment of a stage all the others that follow will not develop properly and these will be affected.
This post is an attempt to explain the paradoxical return of ex-JWs back to the Watchtower. My premise is that a person’s unconscious mind has a positive intent in leading them back to the former environment and the intent is of intrinsic value within individuals.
Developmental psychology tells us there are six primary developmental stages in a person’s life. If a person experiences developmental gaps or underdevelopment of a stage all the others that follow will not develop properly and these will be affected.
These are as follows:
Safety 0-12 months
In this stage the person is trying to determine whether he, is safe in this environment. This is pre-cognitive and is totally based on feelings and the senses. If the parents feel insecurities the child will be also affected by the symbiotic relationship that exists within this triad. This first stage is a critical primal stage that will either develop properly or it won’t. If it doesn’t, in adulthood the person has a pervasive fear and it will manifest itself in different ways. One way is the need to belong to a group, or the need to be in a relationship regardless of how flawed it may be.
Individuation 12-24 months
This has often been referred to as the terrible twos stage. In this stage the child discovers that he is an entity apart from the triad and instinctively tests his limits or boundaries. He discovers one word that gives him power over his caregivers, that word is “no”. One generalization I will make is that people, who have difficulty-saying no, did not properly individuate. The consequence of this as it relates to this topic is, the person may not feel a deep congruency at saying “no” to a flawed theology. They may rationalize their return in all kinds of interesting ways; to them it’s their subjective truth.
Object constancy 24-48 months
This is the stage where the intellect is being developed through the billions upon billions of distinctions in the use of the senses. The life guiding maps of experience are built in this stage. Researchers tell us that in this stage the brain will grow more than in all the other years combined. If we consider the lifestyle of JWs and how they raise their children within a sub cultural bubble, we can see the impoverished minds of adult JWs.
Magical thinking 5-6 years
In this stage everything is magical to a child. The child asks a myriad of simplistic questions because to him everything is interesting. The paradises as well as gruesome Armageddon images are deeply imprinted in the psyche and the mind of the child. Persons sometimes stay stuck in this stage and this can be detected by their false hope of things changing without doing anything different to make the change happen. If you go to a JW meeting you hear a lot of magical thinking comments that are not based on reality.
Socialization 6-12 years
This is the stage the child learns to develop life guiding interactive social skills. Most JW children lack the skills to interact in healthy ways to non-JW kids. At this late stage they have been filled with taboo beliefs about being different thus creating a social barrier. This is very detrimental to person should they ever leave the JWs. They often find themselves alienated from others due to their inability to connect with others. We can understand the strong inner pressure to return to the familiar JW environment than to risk growing and discovering one’s true nature, if a person is not properly developed in this area. I have met several JWs that could not function independently of their subculture due to the lack of social skills. The feeling of alienation overrode their logic of the flawed theology. In my opinion these people are better off within the tribal confines of their preferred congregation. They have not yet evolved to be self-sufficient independently searching for their life mission or exploring the magic of life.
Individuation teenage years
The individuation phase starts all over again. At present the JWs are experiencing losses due to their adolescents not conforming to archaic teachings. In our modern world with information being so readily available from numerous sources, the Watchtower will continue to lose members.
Victor Escalante
