Posts by undercover

16

Argument for JDubs or any Fundi's

by Socrateswannabe in

jehovah's witnesses believe:.

1. man was created in 4026 bce.

2. a global flood occurred in 2370 bce.

undercover

So according to WT/JW chronology , the earth /universe could have been created millions of years ago However they say , ,Adam was created approximately 6000 years ago

Russell and early WT doctrine said that the entire creation process was 7,000 years per creative day, making the earth less than 50,000 years old. Old world Bible doctrine and belief. However, science has proven the earth (and universe) is much older, so the WTS has had to tweak their doctrine to align with what is commonly called 'gap creationism'. The universe and earth came into being millions of years ago, but the 'creative days' began just a short time ago (thus the 7,000 year creative days). Everything on the earth was created during this time, including Adam 6,000 years ago.

Problem with that is that it does not agree with the Bible. Exodus 20:11 - 'For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is them...'

The WTS has painted themselves into a corner with their 'gap creation' belief. It agrees with neither science nor the Bible.

16

Argument for JDubs or any Fundi's

by Socrateswannabe in

jehovah's witnesses believe:.

1. man was created in 4026 bce.

2. a global flood occurred in 2370 bce.

undercover

1. Man was created in 4026 BCE
2. A global flood occurred in 2370 BCE
3. The Israelite’s wandering in the Wilderness began in 1513 BCE

Where were these dates taken from? I'm not sure number 1 is current light...???

Per JW.org, article entitled 'Time Line of the Bible' (just looked it up on mobile device)

4026 Adam's creation

3096 Death of Adam

2370 Floodwaters fell

1513 Exodus from Egypt

114

Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?

by nicolaou in

jehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.

they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.

they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?

undercover

I have't read all the posts, so I'll pretend we're still on page one...

Are you talking 'all' JWs, or just the 'anointed'.

I used to have a pretty good handle on this, with examples of WT printings, etc, to at least argue the point that not all JWs are truly part of the 'Christian congregation' as determined by being anointed by the holy spirit, blah, blah, blah. But over time I've forgotten most of it, lost my notes, because, well, I just don't give a shit much anymore.

But, from my rusty memory, I recall that from some readings of WT doctrine it could be interpreted that only the anointed are truly Christians, while the rest of the JW brotherhood are just faithful companions, though 'true worshippers' of Jehovah, accepting Christ as their ransom. But, at the same time, you could point to other WT writings that lumped all JWs together in the Christian group, with no real signifigance between the anointed and the non-anointed. Which is typical of the WTS - talking about both sides of their mouth, going with whatever theory or belief suits their needs best at the moment. And now that the WTS has changed the F&DS to just the GB, it pretty much wipes out old doctrines/beliefs anway.

I accept that JWs consider themselves a Christian group, if their belief and acceptance of Christ is their measuring stick, just as much as I accept the Mormons are Christians by their own definitions.

I'm just glad I'm not one with them anymore.

47

CO visit... Circuit is not growing at all, he said during midweek meeting

by StarTrekAngel in

so that was a "shocker".

i was not able to attend the meeting.

i had a more important one with my other apostate friends in the area.

undercover

On average, every third CO was a dick. You'd get the friendly, easy going, charming guy who everone loved, then he'd move on, and you'd get either a younger one on the way up, or an older one, on they way out. They were mostly forgettable. Then - the new guy. The company man. The self righeous prick. He goes out of his way to piss people off with his strict interpretation of WT rules. Not written rules mind you, but oral tradition handed down from on high from the Watchtower.

It was these guys that actually helped me see through the BS of the man made rules passed off as if from Jehovah.

13

You're fired!...Damage control in October broadcast

by ab.ortega in

this new broadcast features interviews with bethelites from south africa that were fired reassigned to the ministry field.

i almost feel sorry for these people who gave their all thinking they would be taken care of for who-knows how many years.

however they were let go in the blink of an eye.

undercover

JWs are one of the only church's that don't have nursing homes ( old people's full time care facilities) ... Some of other church's even have hospital

Why would they? Their entire message is one of impending destruction upon all of mankind, and their institutions. Even though the message is now over a hundred years old, they still cling to the idea that it's just around the corner. To set up nursing homes, and care for octogenarian JWs would only create questions.... 'hey, look at these old people who thought the end was coming in the 30s 40s 50s 60s and 70s'

(Never mind all the construction on world headquarters and real estate investments. Stay Toto stay. )

46

Anionted mom says Jehovah may ask her to kill all her family!!

by Witness 007 in

yes my holy anionted mom who has cancer is concerned that the loving god jehovah may ask her in heaven to destroy here non believer family including her 5 year old grandchild during armagedon....how messed up are these crazy people!!?

?.

undercover

Yes my holy anionted mom who has cancer is concerned that the loving God Jehovah may ask her in heaven to destroy here non believer family including her 5 year old Grandchild during armagedon....how messed up are these crazy people!!??

Pretty messed up. But then, she's hypothosizing on a fantasy situation, one that will never arise.

What's even more messed up is that while someone deluded by WT doctrine is concerned about having to destroy non believing family, these same people wouldn't think twice about allowing a child in their care to die to prove their loyalty to the organization/god, by way of denying them a blood transfusion. They are on par with the Baal worshippers who sacrificed their children. Different sacrificial method, different god - same result.

13

Community Outside of a Religious Setting

by What Now? in

jw
friends

this is the one thing that i have struggled with since leaving the organization.

i recognize the need and value of belonging somewhere, being a part of something, showing up weekly to a community where me and my husband and children are loved and utilized and incorporated and cared for.

a place where are my kids qualities are nurtured and encouraged , and then reigned in and developed when needed.

undercover

...wonder if I have done my family a great disservice by taking this away from them.

Seriously? A disservice? You've saved them from indoctrination into a cult. You probably saved them from later personality issues once they realize they're in a cult, and try to escape. You may have even saved their lives, should the blood issue ever arise down the road (hopefully not, but do you want to really face that crisis as an open eyed JW?)

Remember, the 'brotherhood' you were part of was based on everyone in the collective obeying the leadership. Remember how you looked down on 'weak' ones? Remember how you strived, but were never quite good enough, to be the perfect Christian family, spouse, publisher? It was all by design.

Once your eyes were open, and you saw the reality of being in this organzation, you were nothing to them. The leadership cuts loose those they can't control. You're 'friends' ... your 'brotherhood', obeying the leadership, cast you aside. They cast you aside as so much refuse being flung from a car window at 80mph. They don't care about you. They care more about obeying than they do people, just as they've been indoctrinated.

Be thankful that you saved your family from that life of servitude to a religious cult.

31

Why cant Judicial Committees be taped?

by HereIgo in

i have never understood this.

was it because of legal reasons?

i cant think of any other reason why it wouldn't be allowed, but i know the elders ask you repeatedly that you are not taping.

undercover

I was gonna say, 'who says you can't? If you want to record, record. You don't have to let them know.'

But then I read nicolaou's comment (and link), and I like it.

39

What's The First "Worldly" Thing You Did When You Exited The Cult?

by pale.emperor in

when you finally and officially exited the cult, whether it be by disfellowshipping, disassociating or fading - what was the first things you did that are considered "worldly"?.

for me, it was like crash landing on another planet that looked like earth but was completely different to the earth i knew.

i wanted to learn everything that i thought i already knew.. first things i did:.

undercover

For me, there was no 'line in the sand' going from 'in' to 'out'. It was a gradual thing. And as a fader, sometimes it's little things that are actually experssions of rebellion or freedom. Like, leaving at the break between the Public Talk and the WT Study. Then it's skipping Thrusday night meetings.

I remember the last time I went in service, and I quit early that morning, and said to myself that I was never knocking on doors again, trying to sell religion... and I stuck to it. So in a way that was the first thing, even before I had made the conscious decision that I was in a cult.