Posts by undercover

62

Apparently Pinatas are ' no big deal'. What's next? Birthdays?

by xjw_b12 in

i always thought the society frowned upon the use of pinatas, if not discouraging the use of them all together.

apparently the wts has decided to avoid insulting the brothers in mexico.

from the september 22, 2003 awake.

undercover

Actually, if you can get a Watchtower from December 15, 2001 and check out the Questions from Readers article, they have softened their position on Christmas (actually they say "holiday") for JW wives who have an unbelieving spouse. The JW wife of an unbelieving husband can now buy gifts on her husband's behalf, buy gift wrap on her husband's behalf, wrap gifts on her husband's behalf, prepare a special meal that he requests, visit his non-JW relatives and enjoy their company, etc etc, provided she does not participate in anything that would be considered an act of false worship.

Isn't that comprimising one's faith? I mean, if it's a pagan holiday, it's a pagan holiday. A true Christian would have no connection with it.

They also made it ok for wives to vote if required to by their husbands. Again that's comprimising your faith.

What happened to we'll obey god rather than men?

What if your company requires that you raise the national flag every so often(let's say all employees take turns). If you're doing it at the behest of your boss, then you are not worshipping the flag, you're just a slave doing as his master instructs. Think they'll go for that one?

62

"We Miss You".....

by minimus in

jw
friends

that's what i'm starting to hear.

my mother has had a number of people asking her where our family has been.

"have they been attending another hall?

undercover

OK, I'm gonna play Devil's advocate for one thought here:

Some complain about elders or others showing up at their door to "encourage" them and then complain because someone says, "I miss you" and live only minutes away but make no attempt to make contact. Can't have it both way, folks. Either you want em to miss you or you don't.

That being said, it all boils down to being kicked out of the club. Whether it's Jehovah's witnesses, the local country club, a college fraternity or the Mafia, a member has broken the rules or turned his back on his brethren, therefore warrants no sympathy from the remaining club members. Yea, they may use the ole "we miss you" routine to get you to rethink your position but it's not sincere. We are no longer members of this exclusive club and will no longer fit in. They will either snub us or guilt trip us.

We have actually been lucky to have kept contact with some of our closer friends that are still "active"(at least in name only). They don't guilt trip us or say the stupid "we miss you" stuff. I know they probably wonder what our "problem" is, but they choose to remain friends and put the religious issues away while together with us. The ones that say "we miss you" at the occasional meeting or assembly program just irritate me and confirm to me that they really don't care.

62

Apparently Pinatas are ' no big deal'. What's next? Birthdays?

by xjw_b12 in

i always thought the society frowned upon the use of pinatas, if not discouraging the use of them all together.

apparently the wts has decided to avoid insulting the brothers in mexico.

from the september 22, 2003 awake.

undercover

What about throwing rice at weddings?

What about Birthdays? There is no proof that it is wrong to begin with and today it has NO pagan connections.

What about toasting and clinking glasses?

What about saying "bless you" or "geshundheit" or something similar when one sneezes?

What about costume parties?

What about wind chimes?

The argument used to okay pinatas can be used in all of these practices/customs that had pagan origins/influences and many more that I can't think of at the moment.

62

"We Miss You".....

by minimus in

jw
friends

that's what i'm starting to hear.

my mother has had a number of people asking her where our family has been.

"have they been attending another hall?

undercover

The JWs are taught to say "We miss you" or "We missed you at the meeting on Sunday". They use human emotions to keep you "encouraged", and to keep attending the meetings. This is all fake love. If they truly missed you, they would come visit you, and they wouldn't say "We missed you". The only time these three words are truly heartfelt are when two people who love each other are separated for a significant amount of time.

How many times do we remember being told that if someone was missing from a meeting or two to call and check up on that person? Was it out of concern about the physical well-being of that person? No, because the speaker would always follow up that advice with the scripture about not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together and proclaiming that all needed to be in attendance. Unknowingly(or perhaps knowingly) the speaker is encouraging the members of the congregation to force guilt trips on one another in order to keep them in line.

11

More New Testament and Inclusion of name Jehovah

by robhic in

i read with much interest all of the replies to my original question in another thread.

i downloaded one of the books suggested and compiled what i could.

now, as i checked around for sources to prove that i was right and that the nt was jehovah-less, two people mentioned wt sources that i would like verified: 1 - "the watchtower march 1, 1991 p. 28 states that jehovah is not found in the nt.

undercover

Reading this thread, I had an epiphany(I think). Anyway, it hit me like a bolt of lightening:

JWs like to use the illustration that since the Bible is thousands of years old and is the oldest book so carefully translated for centuries and centuries and is basically intact today that it has to be God's Word and that his spirit directed that it survive to today. If God(and/or his spirit) managed to keep this book intact and complete for us today, how come he couldn't keep his name, it's spelling, it's pronounceation and how and when it's to be used intact for us to use today?

38

The brain-washing works! A letter from a dub friend.

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

jw
friends

this was sent to me when i stopped attending meetings after the "sunday' show went to air in australia regarding sexual abuse of children in the wt organisation, of which one of my children was victim of.

the bold print is my added comment.. .

so, how was the rest of your day yesterday?

undercover

remember though, at least 2 of the brothers were apostate and while much of it may have been
true there is no where else to go in this world.

As Hitler's Nazi regime gained control of Germany in the 30s, many sincere German people heard of or knew of atrocities being commited but they ignored it because Hitler promised them a better world under his Third Reich. I can imagine them saying, "While much of it may be true, there is no where else to go".

28

Was it just my hall?

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

my wife and i joke about the differences in our own halls all the time.

i swear she lived in a country club compared to my hall.. just to give a couple of examples:.

and this is from when i was growing up until i left home at 18.. every single weekend was field service.

undercover

Never dance with a member of the opposite sex ( a 17 year old girl once danced with a boy at a wedding reception and got in HUGE trouble ).

You just can't win. If that same girl had danced with another girl, then she would have gotten called down for that too. That whole hidden lesbian desire thing, ya know.

I remember one brother who was kinda touchy/feely with the sisters. Not in a bad way, but he always hugged and put his arm around some of his more close sister friends. These sisters never took it wrong. They knew he was just a big, teddy bear. But one elder(who must have had some sexual tensions not fulfilled or something) got all bent out of shape about it. The local needs talk was about inappropriate conduct and touching. The advice from the stage: If your not married to someone, hands off. Do not touch, even to hug. Handshakes are the extent of touching between male and females not married to each other.

As anal as that sounds, sexual harrassement training sessions for major corporations pretty much say the same thing so as to protect against lawsuits.

55

Faithful & Discreet Slave - NEW LIGHT

by Black Man in

ok........has anybody been hearing rumors about new light on the faithful and discreet slave teaching?

i recently talked to one of my ex-bethel buddies and he said that an adjustment has been in the works for awhile now and that the new light for the fds will be that they will receive their appointment before the great tribulation and that they didn't receive it at 1918-19 as previously taught.

their works (global preaching work, worldwide growth, etc) up until the point of the great tribulation will show that they have been faithful and discreet in caring for the lord's interests and worthy of "official" appointment before the end comes.

undercover

If this change actually came into effect, all their literature, except for the NWT would be no good. They'd have a lot of history to bury. What a mess. Oh well, wouldn't be the first time.

Exactly. Like the "generation" change. The generation that saw 1914 will not die off before Armageddon. That changed. That affects all their literature and teachings from 1995 on. Everything before that is obsolete. That's a lot of history. But the vast majority of the JWs blindly accepted it.

But it will still wake some up. Maybe not a mass exodus, but some will be affected the way some were affected by the "generation" change. And for others, it might be the final push needed to wake them up and do some research. If it happened, it would just be more proof to show such ones that this religion is bogus.

28

Was it just my hall?

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

my wife and i joke about the differences in our own halls all the time.

i swear she lived in a country club compared to my hall.. just to give a couple of examples:.

and this is from when i was growing up until i left home at 18.. every single weekend was field service.

undercover

I remember one person saying that there was no way to attend a meeting while on their cruise, so their family was going to conduct its own meeting in their room. How sad is that??

I remember in one hall a camping trip was planned. Over 20 people, guys and girls. That's when the "chaperones" were included(well, forced on us). We had three distinct camping areas. The "brothers" area, the "sisters" area and the "adult/chaperone" area. Activities were to cease at 10pm so that we could all get a good nights sleep. The reason? The "chaperones(consisted of some elders) had planned to have the public meeting/watchtower study down by the stream and we were all expected to attend. We even sang the songs.

Of course that was the first and last time a "group" camping trip was held, after it was found out how much alcohol the "brothers" drank after curfew and that one brother snuck off to the "sisters" area after curfew.

55

Faithful & Discreet Slave - NEW LIGHT

by Black Man in

ok........has anybody been hearing rumors about new light on the faithful and discreet slave teaching?

i recently talked to one of my ex-bethel buddies and he said that an adjustment has been in the works for awhile now and that the new light for the fds will be that they will receive their appointment before the great tribulation and that they didn't receive it at 1918-19 as previously taught.

their works (global preaching work, worldwide growth, etc) up until the point of the great tribulation will show that they have been faithful and discreet in caring for the lord's interests and worthy of "official" appointment before the end comes.

undercover

an adjustment has been in the works for awhile now and that the new light for the FDS will be that they will receive their appointment before the Great Tribulation and that they didn't receive it at 1918-19 as previously taught.

Interesting. In an attempt to "trap" or coerce those with doubts or to expose trouble-makers, the elders always like to ask the question about accepting or believing if the GB is the modern day FDS. If you answer "No", then off to the JC meetings they go, to DF you and to cover-up the scandal. If this "light" does change, that question will no longer be valid. In fact, shouldn't all those that were DF'd on that basis get a "parole hearing" and have their sentance(DFing) retracted?