Posts by undercover

62

YESTERDAY'S ASSEMBLY SUCKED........

by Mary in

jw
friends

well, i got dragged, kicking and screaming talked in to going to the assembly yesterday as a friend of mine was in the drama.

what a freaking waste of time interesting experience.

first of all, i had a tough time squeezing my larger than life ass bum into a seat that looked like it was made for a house-elf small child.

undercover

I remember a sister that was counseled because she had a painting(done by a worldy person) of Jesus in her house. "Form of Idolatry"

But....

What about the calenders that had paintings of Jesus, the apostles and others from bible times? Does that mean we can't hang those calenders on our walls? What about the mural at the Stanley Theatre(I think it was the Stanley)? What about the assembly halls that have mini-museums of old pictures and newspaper arcticles of Russell, Rutherford and the like? Is this not a form of idolatry?

You(the WTS) hang your pics of Russell or Rutherford, I'll hang posters of my favorite famous people and things.

49

"Don't Say The WATCHTOWER Says This.....Say The Bible Says It"

by minimus in

jw
friends

that's the latest from the assembly.

they don't want you quoting the watchtower as the source for decisions.

i wonder why.....

undercover

Elsewhere, dude;

Wow, I never realized those things until you posted that. I just found an online Bible site and read the account. The only thing that I noticed was that the translation that I read did not say "you will die the day you eat of it". It just says "you will die". I can't remember how the NWT says it. But nowhere does it say that man was to live forever. Womans punishment was to crave her husband and have childbirth pains. The man's punishment was to have to toil the ground make his own way instead of having a garden life. No mention of of death for their sin.

Of course someone (a dub) would point to Romans(?) where it says the "wages sins pay is death" blah blah.

It's amazing how different the Bible reads when you don't allow the WTS influence in while reading it.

38

So, What Do They Dump Next?

by metatron in

jw
friends

well, they dumped food service at assemblies, us subscriptions to the watchtower, reduced hard bound book.

distribution and downsized about a thousand bethelites ( over time).

supposedly, dumping subscriptions brought.

undercover

So the WTS spends less money on the venues they rent because they are renting for shorter periods of time, especially now that they are using venues in smaller areas that they can swindle around more easily, plus they have a psychological advantage with the old-timers remembering the days of 5, 6, 7 and 8 day conventions who are more than happy to say how much things have improved over the years and how Jehovah's Blessing? is obviously on His People?, and how they have more to put in the ~~collection plates~~ Contribution Boxes? with the Simplified Arrangement?.

Have you noticed how they parade the contribution box attendents in front of everybody during the closing song of each session? They line up at an entrance to the arena floor and then during the song they walk out for all to see and place them every so many feet apart. Meanwhile, the dubs are singing and watching, remembering that they need to drop something in the box. For a church that prides itself on not "passing the plate" this little display sure does show what's important.

10

speaking of blood, i just talked to my mom and she said...

by dh in

jw
friends

i talked to my mom on the phone the other day she is a jw, she knows full well what i think of the jw garbage, and i have tried to make her see it, but it's not use, so i don't go on about it much, aside from the occasional comment to see what the reaction will, in good humour of course... anyway, the other day i was struggling to think of topics we could talk about (typical son/mother relationship) so in my usual amused way i asked what she thought about the new view the society had on blood parts... i was expecting something but i didn't know what.... anyway, my mom calmly as if nothing was amiss, told me that it hasn't changed really, and that 'it doesn't matter anyway, because blood was always a conscience matter' now i love my mom, but this blew me away, i know of, and she knows people who have died because of blood, and she would still probably do it, but more to the point, haven't people been df'd for having blood transfusions?

good grief, if blood is a conscience matter and always was, why the hell so many people die and whose conscience lets their kid die?.

pffffffffff

undercover

Everything that involves making a decision is a conscience matter. It's the WTS trying to control your conscience that is at issue. If they can't convince you it's the right thing to do, they'll use fear to keep you in line.

I thought using blood was now a DAing offense instead of a DFing one? I'm not sure. Not that there's a difference except in the courtroom when the WTS lawyers are trying to keep the borg from being sued.

125

It's Time to Find New Vistas

by Farkel in

jw
friends

i cannot compete with threads anymore.

they beat me!

threads about pit bulls and other dogs and virginity get all the attention.

undercover

When I first came here, I was looking for info on the WTS. There was a handful of posters, Farkel included, that I came to realize knew their shit. I look forward to their posts on WTS policy, doctrine, dogma, etc.

Someone mentioned on this thread that the needs of the XJWs have changed. I think that is true. But I think that is a good thing. More people are leaving the ranks of the WTS. As time goes by, we start to live normal lives. We don't need to keep rehashing the same old things about the badness of the WTS. It's not healthy. Of course, as new ones show up, we need people around who can help them find the answers they seek and share experiences to show them they are not alone. We still need Farkel.

29

Concerning Birthdays, Dogs, and the Bible

by metatron in

the watchtower can't establish clear evidence that birthdays , as a natural event, are part of 'false' religion.. so, they try to associate them with negative events in the bible and condemn them thereby.. the trouble with this reasoning is that it is foolish to condemn any practise arbitrarily simply because someone can.

find something negative correlated with it in bible events.

( how about chronology and false prophecy?).

undercover

Anyway, why don't they use this kind of information instead of the usual "Bad light" theory. I'm inclined to agree with them (heaven help me!) on this principle merely because it's quite plainly steeped in paganism and being a Christian the two don't marry together for me.

They used to use the pagan theory for Birthdays. It was a combination of the two bad examples in the Bible and the pagan connection.

Someone has mentioned something to the effect that the WTS, since making a bigger impact in Mexico, is trying to make it easier for people there to accept "the Truth(tm)". The pinata thing is very popular in parts of Mexico(and the US too). To un-demonize pinatas they used their new theory that if a certain practice no longer has pagan connection, influence or is thought of as pagan, then it doesn't fall under practices that would bring sanctions from the WTS. Of course, it didn't take some long to realize that birthdays fall under the same reasoning. Maybe there were pagan connections way back when, but not now. Now it's just a fun time. Why are there sanctions against it? The simple, stupid WTS answer: Pinatas aren't mentioned in the Bible and the only birthday parties mentioned ended in death. So, obviously God put those examples in there to let us know about his displeasure in our celebrating them.

I still say that if birthdays are such a big deal to God, he would have put it in plain Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek that birthdays are bad, mmmkay?

27

July WT. Contradicts Itself Regarding "Unbelievers"

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was reading the july wt.

at my mother's yesterday and the qfr asked about who should and shouldn't be viewed as an "unbeliever".

if a person was attending meetings and might even be an "unbaptized publisher" they should not be considered an "unbeliever".

undercover

cyber-sister,

Wow. I can't believe that you went through this. I'm flabbergasted. Even though we don't trust the WTS, they really sank to new lows in attacking your daughter who wasn't even an active publisher and unbaptized to boot. And then they have the gall to blame you for your parenting skills in allowing her take this path.

Do they have no decency or respect for anyone?

21

What is really discussed at elders' meetings?

by sinamongurl in

.

how to hide secrets?.

sinamon

undercover

The elders are like any other power group, some are good, some are bad. You can trust some, others you can't.

I have been in on a few judicial committees, not as an elder, but, well we won't go into why I was there, but I can say that at least one of the meetings was handled properly and with mercy and kindness. The others weren't so nice. I saw some elders get really ugly. I was surprised at the hostility that was displayed in that room.

If you don't want the congregation to know anything don't tell an elder. That was my general rule after a while. Even though there were some I trusted, if that elder shared with another elder, who's to say that elder wouldn't spread the info to others. I knew elders that told me stuff they shouldn't have. I remember a DFd person told me the night they were DFd what happened at the meeting. The next morning at the field service meeting I overheard two elders wives talking in detail what happened the night before at the meeting. Yea, the DFd one probably shouldn't have told me, but the elders definately are under orders to not talk about it. Obviously these elders told their wives who couldn't wait for field service so they could gossip about it. By the Sunday meeting most of the congregation knew everything about everything.

29

Concerning Birthdays, Dogs, and the Bible

by metatron in

the watchtower can't establish clear evidence that birthdays , as a natural event, are part of 'false' religion.. so, they try to associate them with negative events in the bible and condemn them thereby.. the trouble with this reasoning is that it is foolish to condemn any practise arbitrarily simply because someone can.

find something negative correlated with it in bible events.

( how about chronology and false prophecy?).

undercover

As far as Job's children celebrating birthday, the WTS refuted the use of the word birthday or the idea of it being a birthday in one of their publications. Now you might now it's hogwash and I know it's hogwash, but a faithful dub is going to believe what they read from the WTS. So I usually avoid the Job angle myself.

I've found that you can't prove a Bible principle against birthday celebrating by the two examples the WTS likes to give. If God was really against people celebrating birthdays, he would have made it a no-no in the Mosaic law. And if it was really a big no-no, it would have been mentioned along with abstaining from fornication and blood. Somehow it didn't make the don't do list. So it must not really be that big of a deal to God if we do or don't celebrate it.

27

July WT. Contradicts Itself Regarding "Unbelievers"

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was reading the july wt.

at my mother's yesterday and the qfr asked about who should and shouldn't be viewed as an "unbeliever".

if a person was attending meetings and might even be an "unbaptized publisher" they should not be considered an "unbeliever".

undercover

IF a person was attending meetings and might even be an "unbaptized publisher" they should NOT be considered an "unbeliever".

That's so they can count him as a JW in their stats even counting any hours he turns in for field service.

if this same person wanted to date and or marry a fellow "believer" that was baptized, then they would be in violation of "marrying only in the Lord"!

They don't trust an unbaptized person. They can't have a baptized person hanging around an unbaptized person too much. They might be led astray by the unbaptized(read unindoctrinated) persons attitudes and reasonings.

They don't trust the unbaptized, but they'll by God count them and their hours to bolster their numbers.