The idea that all conclusions are provisional is a working assumption in science. While we often say that it's a "fact" that the earth revolves around the sun, a scientist would say that it's really only a "theory". Of course, it's a theory that happens to have a great deal of experimental support, but it could be proven to be incorrect or (more likely) incomplete, in the future. Ideas that seemed to be just as well established have been overturned in the past. Hubble's discovery that the universe is expanding was probably about on a par with finding out that the earth doesn't revolve around the sun after all.
voltaire
JoinedPosts by voltaire
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31
Infinitism
by dunsscot inskeptics of the world, unite!.
as i slowly and deliberately nursed a nonalcoholic cup of coca-cola tonight, something motivated me to pull out my notes on infinitism and share them with you good folks here.
infinitism is a philosophical school of thought that advocates the epistemological "suspension of judgment.
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letter to the society
by sleepy inhere is a rough version of a letter i intend to send to the society regarding an article in the july 1 2001 watchtower about doubt.. any suggestions on how i can improve the letter?.
also what are the odds on getting in big trouble in sending this?.
dear friend ,.
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voltaire
These articles are so hypocritical. The use of one's reasoning powers are supposed to be directed at anyone except the society.
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Franz 3rd best hebrew scholar in world?
by sleepy inrecently at my local district convention it was stated by a speaker that he had met someone on the the ministry who had told him that fred ranz was one of the three best hebrew scholars in the world.. this didn't sound true to me for several reasons, but could anyone with knowledge of this suject shed some light on the matter?
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voltaire
This always seemed far-fetched to me. How would a lay-person even know? How likely is it that Franz had a better grasp of Hebrew than the dozens (hundreds or thousands?) of scholars in Israel itself? This sort of thing also depends on one's doctrinal position. The best scholar in the world is probably whichever one that produces work that most closely supports my preconceived conclusion.
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Does anyone else find this hypocritical?
by Shaneliza ini'm new to this discussion board, so this may have been covered before.
i was raised in a jw family,(although i have been out for over 20 years) my mom and step-father are staunch believers.
being good jw's, they are against all "pagan" holidays, yet my mom took advantage of the boxing day sales, and my step-father accepted his christmas bonuses.
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voltaire
Boxing day is when any red-blooded American boxer beats the snot out of a European boxer. It's like Christmas, Easter and New Year's day all rolled into one!
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Were you afraid that the JW's were right?
by jurs inmany posters have said that initially they had doubts and then cane to the internet to check things out.
were any of you afraid that maybe you would find that the org was the truth ?.
i was worried about that.
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voltaire
There seems to be a certain set of stages one goes through. I think the final, and most nagging is the one you have described. You are pretty near 100% sure it's not the truth, but it's not really 100%, it's 99.9%. And it's that last .1 that is the hardest to get over. The stakes are so high, that one can't help but be a little extra careful. I love the point made by Reagan's husband. (I think I've got that right. somebody said it above) Ex-Mormons are going through the same situation, EX-everybody who's left any religion. I wonder where you got the impression that more study and service could help you pull out of it? Years of WT indoctrination? Just maybe.
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What's the Record?
by hippikon injust wondering - whats the record for being df'd or da'd and then reinstated?
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voltaire
I think that a sister was reinstated after as few as 5 months, but I can't recall for sure. The situation was interesting, though.
Two sisters are disfellowshipped for sexual immorality at the same time.They were double dating non JW's. One is reinstated fairly soon. (if not 5, then maybe 6-8 months), the other waits close to a year( maybe longer). I wasn't an elder at the time. A sister who knew them well and seemed to have the inside scoop made a casual remark that the second sister had committed a more serious sin. My interpretation at the time was that the first sister didn't "go all the way", while the other did. Seems plausible, right? Fast forward several years. I'm an elder. I'm browsing through the confidential files. (real interesting stuff BTW, everyone should do it at least once). There's a letter from the society giving the local body a pretty good dressing down for having reinstated the first sister so soon. New interpretation: First sister got lucky. Second sister took it on the chin
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?Anyone read CoC and not been affected?
by lookingnow22 indoes anybody know of ..anybody that has read coc and not been affected so as to leave/question the society?
i myself haven't read it, but am curious about this.. thanks,.
looking
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voltaire
Anyone who read it and wasn't moved by it probably won't be posting here. I read it and was amazed. I think the fact that I had been an elder gave me an advantage . Any elder would recognize the behind-the-scenes governing body excerpts as entirely plausable. They have the ring of truth as the society likes to say. I have seen internal power struggles like those that occured in the 70's leading up to the formation of a true body as opposed to the all-powerful president. I have witnessed inconsistent policy that seems to mirror pretty much what must be taking place behind the scenes over the blood issue. Being an elder removes the mystique. They're a handful of men who can be virtuous one day and petty the next. Some are inteligent, others are less gifted. Most seem sincere, but some want their way at all costs. Some are leaders,other are the proverbial rubber stamp. In short, the result is exactly what one would expect of a group of uninspired(by the holy spirit, that is) men. Read Ray's book and you realize that it's a big ditto for the GB. No more mystery= no more reverence.
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Wow! Pioneering's in Trouble!
by metatron inapril service report 88,735 pioneers (u.s.).
may service report 86,515 pioneers.
i know they'll pick up a couple thousand suckers in.
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voltaire
It'll be interesting to see if they lower the hours again. At some point, perhaps everyone will either be pionerring(one hour or more in the ministry) or inactive.
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Blood and RANK dishonesty!
by Marvin Shilmer inthe thread started by maximus named gb admits it has no answers, blood ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9056&site=3 ) is chock full of good information and is what this thread stems from.
if you have not already read maximus thread, you should.
i felt like adding my two cents about one aspect of that discussion.
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voltaire
Maximus,
You've expressed the distinction that I couldn't quite put into words. I feel pulled in different directions with regards to how much blame to apportion and to whom. What you said is right. Those who know the inconsistencies and do nothing, I have no tolerance for. They are as bad as Jim Jones. Those who simply swallow the party line without questioning, I feel differently about, maybe even a bit sorry for. There are clearly different degrees of responsibility.
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Will WTS Use 'Gang of Four' Defense?
by metatron insuppose a big organization gets into trouble with.
corrupt, stupid leadership and needs to make big changes.. one way to fix the mess is to round up a bunch of.
scapegoats in the leadership, imprison them (executing.
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voltaire
Good sugestion. Maybe they could pin the blame on several deceased or senile insiders. They wouldn'tbe able to complain if they wanted to.
Francoise, you clearly expect the imminent demise of the org. While I do expect it to make some fairly drastic changes in the near future, I personally doubt whether it will really implode. Religions are resilient. People believe because they want to. It makes them feel better. FACTS ARE NOT AN ISSUE WITH SOME PEOPLE(MAYBE MOST PEOPLE). Remember 1975? 1914-1925? Carl Sagan had an interesting remark about Rutherford. He said that the whole episode was proof that there is something very near the heart of religion that is suprisingly resistant to rational inquiry.(my paraphrase). Let's hope that the new and improved version will be a far more benign, less controlling religion.