Posts by Comatose

12

Reza Aslan (author, "Zealot: the life and times of Jesus of Nazareth") interview on TYT

by adamah in

reza aslan (author of "zealot: the life and times of jesus of nazareth") makes a few points during an interview on 'the young turks' that really deserve their own thread.. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k .

his main point often missed by modern-day believers is that the writers of the gospels weren't even attempting to write an accurate historical account (which is a modern concept) but instead seeking to convey truths (truisms) via jesus' use of parables and the story of his life and death.

Comatose

I I just started reading the book today and it is so far a great read. Learning quite a bit about the Jewish religion and way of life right now.

56

Even MORE evidence for "Jesus died on a Cross"?

by ILoveTTATT in

i like jwfact's http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/cross-or-stake.php.

it would probably be interesting to add the information found in this article:.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/the-staurogram/.

Comatose

MP - did you read the book? Bart doesn't think the bible is true. He doesn't think all the accounts in the bible the gospels are accurate. He just thinks there is enough evidence to show a man matching Jesus leadership and followers lived. From that stand poi t it wouldn't matter if Nazareth existed or not. His only point is that Jesus did exist contrary to people saying he is a made up fake person completely. You should read the book.

56

Even MORE evidence for "Jesus died on a Cross"?

by ILoveTTATT in

i like jwfact's http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/cross-or-stake.php.

it would probably be interesting to add the information found in this article:.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/the-staurogram/.

Comatose

Ah yes... I made an error. I thought you and MP were arguing from the same stand point. My apologies. Yeah, the book is interesting. I liked it myself. Have a nice day, talk to you later.

27

In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth...

by geek in

jw
friends

this very first sentence in the bible makes no sense to me, i struggle with it and i am wondering what other's thoughts are on the subject.

don't get me wrong, i believe in god, i believe their is a creator, or atleast i hope their is.

but i struggle with him creating the heavens and the earth, i mean, why would he?

Comatose

Geek, the you that you speak of was the you that was made as a result of your experiences and surroundings. It is your consciousness that you were acknowledging. But, in a different body or family you would have had different experiences and different learnings. I don't think you would be the same friend.

56

Even MORE evidence for "Jesus died on a Cross"?

by ILoveTTATT in

i like jwfact's http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/cross-or-stake.php.

it would probably be interesting to add the information found in this article:.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/the-staurogram/.

Comatose

Jeffro - have you read his book? That's exactly what he says. He thinks a guy named Jesus lived and was a leader type, but none if the miraculous stuff happened. It was added by later scribes or embellished in the stories.

18

Reinstatement Rescinded?!?!?

by DATA-DOG in

i heard an announcement some time ago, " [ insert name's ] reinstatement has been rescinded and is no longer one of jehovah's witnesses.

" has anyone ever heard of such a thing?

elders, have you ever done this?

Comatose

Sounds crazy. They make this stuff as they go.

100

Upcoming KM!! Why we are not False Prophets!

by DATA-DOG in

this subject is coming up this month in the tms.

i just thought i would start a post for newbies or lurkers.

if you have any scans of the awake inside cover that would be awesome.

Comatose

Another bookmark added. Thanks DD. I hope one day I get to use these.

20

The Paradox of Using Miracles to Explain the Bible Accounts

by Comatose in

i've been thinking about this for a week or so.

ill try to lay it out as clearly as possible without getting to long winded and id like to hear your thoughts.. .

i know the biblical account of the flood has been discussed ad nauseum.

Comatose

I agree with most of everything you post Adam. :) Wish I knew you and we could get together to chat.

My problem is saying that a miracle happened by means of non-miraculous events. Seems so paradoxical. The flood in itself was a miracle, not a natural phenomenon. But, the. They go back and try to reverse engineer scientific reasons to support the flood. Silliness.

Also, if there was a water canopy blocking out enough sunlight that a rainbow had never before been possible, the. That means they couldn't see the stars or moon I guess. But, god made the moon as a luminary for the night... Can you see the moon on a cloudy night?

20

The Paradox of Using Miracles to Explain the Bible Accounts

by Comatose in

i've been thinking about this for a week or so.

ill try to lay it out as clearly as possible without getting to long winded and id like to hear your thoughts.. .

i know the biblical account of the flood has been discussed ad nauseum.

Comatose

Ucantnome then why did Noah have to use birds to divine whether or not there was land? Was that a lack of faith?

the problem isn't just believing in miracles. It's mixing them with natural or scientific evidence. Stating the water came from a water canopy that was surrounding the earth keeping it all pleasant and livable with no snow and ice previously. It's so easy to disprove that. But, then when it is proved false the fall back is that it was a miracle.

It would be better for fundamentalists to just claim miraculous flooding from god where all is possible. I might still be a witness then honestly as I was deep in and brainwashed. It's trying to provide amazingly contemptible evidence that makes people think and realize there is a logical problem.

20

The Paradox of Using Miracles to Explain the Bible Accounts

by Comatose in

i've been thinking about this for a week or so.

ill try to lay it out as clearly as possible without getting to long winded and id like to hear your thoughts.. .

i know the biblical account of the flood has been discussed ad nauseum.

Comatose

I've been thinking about this for a week or so. I’ll try to lay it out as clearly as possible without getting to long winded and I’d like to hear your thoughts.

I know the biblical account of the flood has been discussed ad nauseum. I am not going to be bashing the story or attempting to prove why it is false. But, rather looking at a common explanation that was used by my parents and I have heard in the pages in the WT as well as off the lips of other JW’s. I want to analyze the common claim that god could have simply used a miracle to solve any of the objections that are commonly levied against it. Many Christians today do not think it is a literal account taken as truth, but many still do. JW’s the ones this post will focus on.

Biblical Story – The angels came to earth and mated with women who they found attractive, the offspring were called Nephilim. The Nephilim ruined the earth and hurt people. The earth became so bad that god regretted making man and all life on it. There was one man named Noah who was good. God made a covenant with Noah prior to giving him the dimensions of the ark. The deal was that only 8 people would live at the coming extinction event. God then decreed and set the size of the ark at a size that would accommodate only the 8 people and animals plus the supplies. The flood happened and covered the tallest mountains while lasting the better part of a year. Noah finally deduced that the waters receding by releasing birds until one came back with leaves in its mouth showing Noah that plant life was above water.

Paradox of Miracles – When asked how coral could survive under a mile of water away from the sunlight, a JW would say god could do that. How about fresh water fish and salt water fish living in the murky smothering brackish water? God could do it. How about getting the animals from remote continents and locations to the ark? God could do it. In fact, the new book has a chapter on Noah and mentions god having the animal types orderly file onto the ark from far away places. That would be a miracle. How did insects and worms survive submersion for such a long time without drowning? God could do it. How could the ark survive that torrential downpour and bursting up from under of the waters without breaking? God could do it. How could all the animals get along and not eat each other? God could do it. How did they not run out of food or get sick from the filthy living conditions? God could do it. How did whales and porpoises survive for so long without the food they need or the salinity and habitat they need? God could do it.

So, the flood was possible as understood by fundamentalists only with the use of miracles. Where is the paradox?

Why didn’t a god capable of such miracles simply with a “blink of an eye” wipe the bad people off the face of the earth? Why would a perfect god incapable of petty anger kill all life on earth over the acts of some bad people?

If god is capable of miracles to the extent the flood would indicate, why did he require a wooden boats construction that took decades to build? Why did he require them to gather food and supplies when he can provide food from heaven?

When a god asks mere mortals to take specific actions to save themselves by constructing their own survival craft, then the use of miracles makes no sense. When JW's try to explain where the water came from using a logical approach of claiming there was a water canopy and water underground then the miracles neccessary for the flood to happen do not make sense. Blending miracles with plausible explanations just does not mix.

I’ll leave you with this.

If god spoke to Noah? – Genesis 6:13, Genesis 7:1

If god shut Noah in the ark? – Genesis 7:16

If god remembered Noah? – Genesis 8:1

Then why was Noah sending out birds to try to see if the water had receded? – Genesis 8:6

Why wasn’t Noah just asking god?