Posts by waiting

26

insight into human behavior-the famous stanford prison experiment revisited

by Realist in

jw
friends

simulated prison in '71 showed a fine line between `normal' and `monster'

by john schwartz

published: may 6, 2004 .

waiting

PS: i think there is no point in blaming humanity for this. we simply are nothing else but animals with a exceptionally large brain. imo there is no point in blaming lions for what they do either.

Just caught your "PS"

No one, including me, is blaming human nature. Just like a lion.........we are humans. As the article quoted some other professionals - that's why proper training & oversight is necessary.

But unlike lions, we can control/channel/discipline/rise above our nature. Lions can be trained & given proper oversight. I think that's a significant difference. And our thumb.

waiting

my PS: my life story is boring. However, I'm at work now.....so I think the majority of things are boring. Not this thread though.

26

insight into human behavior-the famous stanford prison experiment revisited

by Realist in

jw
friends

simulated prison in '71 showed a fine line between `normal' and `monster'

by john schwartz

published: may 6, 2004 .

waiting

Hi,

Thanks for the click - I used to have it, but lost it.....my life story.

Fascinating study. In fact, there were quite a few done to show just how base humans could quickly become........and they can't be repeated, because of human nature. It's not politically correct (no pun intended) anymore.

waiting

26

insight into human behavior-the famous stanford prison experiment revisited

by Realist in

jw
friends

simulated prison in '71 showed a fine line between `normal' and `monster'

by john schwartz

published: may 6, 2004 .

waiting

At one point, he said, the guards in the fake prison ordered their prisoners to strip and used a rudimentary sex joke to humiliate them.

Professor Zimbardo ended the experiment the next day, more than a week earlier than planned.

*cough*................this news article gives (at least to me) the impression that Pro. Zimbardo "ended the experiment the next day" because of the behaviour of the guards against the prisoners.

In this article, he & the reporter fail to mention that the professor participated in and was proud of his experiment - and argued against stopping his experiment.

Following is a quote from the professor who innocently walked in on his experiment:

After leaving the prison with Zimbardo, she said, he asked her what she thought of it. "I think he expected some sort of great intellectual discussion about what was going on. Instead, I started to have this incredible emotional outburst. I started to scream, I started to yell, 'I think it is terrible what you are doing to those boys!' I cried. We had a fight you wouldn't believe, and I was beginning to think, wait a minute, I don't know this guy. I really don't, and I'm getting involved with him?"

Zimbardo was shocked by her reaction and upset, she said, but eventually that night, "he acknowledged what I was saying and realized what had happened to him and to other people in the study. At that point he decided to call the experiment to a halt."

Says Zimbardo: "She challenged us to examine the madness she observed, that we had created and had to take responsibility for."

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/relaged/970108prisonexp.html

26

insight into human behavior-the famous stanford prison experiment revisited

by Realist in

jw
friends

simulated prison in '71 showed a fine line between `normal' and `monster'

by john schwartz

published: may 6, 2004 .

waiting

We've had these websites up for discussion before here - and the Milgram Experiment (which was done in over 6 countries at various times) is well worth considering again. An exceptionally high percentage of *average* persons will inflict pain (sometimes to the death stroke) if an authority figure tells them to do so. They may feel vaguely uneasy about it........but they'll do it anyway.

As for the Stanford Experiment? One of the more intriguing aspects is that the Dr. conducting the experiment fell into the same *mindthink* as the guards and prisoners. He didn't realize it.....he became the Chief Warden and it was *his* prison. He didn't put a stop to the experiment until a visiting professor demanded he do so - and he argued vehemently against her. He just couldn't see his own partication. If memory serves, he married that professor later on. Smart man.

When we viewed films about these experiments in psych class, the guy next to me kept nervously laughing outloud while people screamed (even though the Milgram participants weren't really hurt). His response wasn't because he enjoyed it (I think) - but because he was so uncomfortable comprehending the ramifications of the experiments.

A majority of persons (even highly intelligent Stanford University students & professors) will conform. It's our human nature. And that was the point of that psch. chapter. Humans ain't that great of a species sometimes.

waiting

76

STOP Talking to Your Family OR ELSE!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

" (the watchtower july 1st 1963 issue, page 411).

" (the watchtower july 1st 1963 issue, page 413).

" (the watchtower july 15th 1963 issue, page 446).

waiting

Metatron made an excellent suggestion on page one:

PRINT OUT ALL THESE QUOTES AND SAVE THEM

Again, as Hawk said that Farkel said: The WT's own printed words will destroy them.

One can only ~~hope~~ work towards that goal.

Thanks to whoever brought this thread up .... wonderful info for us.....and all our New JW (and x) friends here.

waiting

40

Article on Sexual Abuse Lawsuits in Texas Against JW Congregation (long)

by CA_Lawyer in

hello all- thought this article would be of interest; if this doesn't post correctly, the entire article is on law.com.

edited by hawk to add urls.

front page - click here: http://www.law.com/index.shtml.

waiting

Thank you for printing this - these types of articles and TV coverage ARE being viewed by active jw's. Some are even thinking. I bought some makeup the other day and spent some time talking with the saleswoman - nice chat. Yesterday, I returned one item. She opened her drawer for something & a WT & Awake were laying there. I asked if they were hers. Yes.

Then we talked........and talked........and talked. She came in the Org. in '97. She had viewed a show on Monday night (the night before) which talked about the child abuse church problem - and Jehovah's Witnesses. After talking? "You mean that show was telling the truth?"

An interesting comment she made:

JW: Oh- I love Jehovah's Organization. I've not had any bad experiences.

me: My daughter was molested. Remember me telling you about my friend? Her daughter was molested. Remember my other friend? Her son was raped for years. He finally killed himself while still a teenager.

Watch over your two daughters. There's over 22 thousand active JW child molesters on file at the Society.

JW: Oh - but that was BEFORE they were jw's.

me: NO. Those are active Jehovah's Witnesses who are on record as accused/proven child molesters.

She just looked at me quietly and said "Thank you." She asked me to come back & talk some more. Slowly but surely - the WTBTS's dirty secrets are coming to light. New Light.

Great article & great work. Thank you again.

waiting

31

A 'sister' writes to Silentlambs

by abbagail in

from: [email protected] .

date: wed, 21 apr 2004 17:04:04 -0500 (cdt) .

subject: a sister writes .

waiting

BUT, I truly believe we need to put some of the blame on ourselves. I think many of these horrible incidents of abuse could have been possibly prevented, nipped in the bud, or resolved much better than they were if people used some common sense.

This woman gave her story as an example. Her story doesn't mean it's the JW normal response.
"Common sense" is not naturally equated with Jehovah's Witnesses. Cult-like behavior is.
This woman is using the WT Party Line "put some of the blame on ourselves." ie: 1975 fiasco was caused because *some brothers went ahead of Jehovah's Organization.*
This woman is also using the WT Party Line *elders are imperfect men* - but at the same time - *stick with Jehovah* which REALLY means *stick with the Watchtower.*

horrible incidents of abuse could have been possibly prevented,

And how would that happen? To not trust our "spiritual brothers and sisters"? That, indeed, goes against Watchtower indoctrination.....as elders are to be viewed by "the flock" as "Glorious Ones." Until the elder (or Watchtower) screws up - then the elder is an "untrained volunteer" or "itinerant preacher." (quoting Watchtower btw)

31

A 'sister' writes to Silentlambs

by abbagail in

from: [email protected] .

date: wed, 21 apr 2004 17:04:04 -0500 (cdt) .

subject: a sister writes .

waiting

BUT, I truly believe we need to put some of the blame on ourselves. I think many of these horrible incidents of abuse could have been possibly prevented, nipped in the bud, or resolved much better than they were if people used some common sense.

24

An Esmerelda by any other name would still be just as screwed up.

by Fleur in

jw
friends

i've lost old hotmail accounts and the old account info that went with them.

but it is me, es, essie, esmerel/alda, in addition to anything else obscene i may be known by in these parts.. i just pounded this out in pure frustration.

i'm probably going to get heckled for posting it but what the hell, there isn't anywhere else i can go where people will get this, and i can't keep it inside, it has got to go somewhere before my brain explodes.. so here it is.why did i go to that restaurant today?

waiting

Hi Essie,

Good to read your words again.........they've been missed by many of us. Your daughter sounds lovely - quite the outgoing girl, eh? And it's great that your father is still part of your family. I doubt if the elders would say much to him, that "family business" scenario is priceless.

As for slipping back into the language of your cult years? Yeah, it happens. I think you handled the whole situation smashingly! Some others of us would have just said "uh....uh....uh.....uh.....uh."

And you gave that twice re-instated woman something to think about....human conscience without cult influence. Who knows?

You did well. Stick around for awhile!

waiting

47

Do Abused Children Tend To Be Abusive Adults???

by minimus in

any idea?

?

waiting

There was a study done some time ago on prisoners on Death Row at a particularly large jail....I think approx. 20 condemned murders - most of them violent.

Not all of them were sexually abused as children.

ALL OF THE MURDERERS had been from violent, abusive families.

Now, another study might not show this total agreement, but most researchers agree (imo) - violence begets violence....but not always.

waiting