wasasister

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Posts by wasasister

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  37

  Last Post

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i love so many of you so very much.

  what wonderful people there are here and how i have rejoiced in our spirits joining.. i have, as i said, given up.

  i am disconnecting from this board and from a number of other things in my life.. i am staying connected to mitch.

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  wasasister

  You'd better believe I'll keep in touch with you. You are a rare individual and I'm not going to let you slip off my radar so easily.

  Thank you for your example; you are, in my estimation, the embodiment of the word "gentleman"...

  Your sister,
  Was
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  3

  Rabbi's Rosh Hashanah Sermon

  by wasasister in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following was sent to me by a friend, a reform jewish rabbi.

  i present it in its entirety, with edits only to remove details about identity and location.

  i thought it would be an interesting perspective and one not normally available to us as ex-jw's.

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  wasasister

  Thanks for your comments, Ginny. I expected the Rabbi would be biased towards Israel, as any devout Jew would be. However, I found his insights into the hatred of America by Islamic extremists to be complimentary with what we are learning.

  As many have said, it will be far easier to eliminate these terrorist factions if we can understand how they think.
• 
  3

  Rabbi's Rosh Hashanah Sermon

  by wasasister in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following was sent to me by a friend, a reform jewish rabbi.

  i present it in its entirety, with edits only to remove details about identity and location.

  i thought it would be an interesting perspective and one not normally available to us as ex-jw's.

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  wasasister

  The following was sent to me by a friend, a Reform Jewish Rabbi. I present it in its entirety, with edits only to remove details about identity and location. I thought it would be an interesting perspective and one not normally available to us as ex-JW's. By posting this, I express no opinion on the content, but I do find it balanced and well-presented. It is rather lengthy, but worth the effort.
  ***********************************************

  Rosh Hashanah Morning 5762
  September 18, 2001
  Rabbi B**

  We gather for Rosh Hashanah like we always do but this years is different.
  Usually we feel a sense of separation from the rest of the world on High
  Holidays. In most years we would say it is Rosh Hashanah for us and a week
  day for the rest of the world.
  This year cannot turn away from the events of the world. This year we gather
  in the shadow of the events of the world. We stand between the tragic events
  of last week and war to come.

  We had believed that we were living in an era of peace. The Soviet Union
  collapsed over ten years ago. The cold war concluded with victory for the
  side freedom.

  Not that long ago peace seemed to be a given, only prosperity concerned us.
  Now history returns. Sadly, once again, we live in interesting times.

  The events of last week affect us deeply. They shake to the very core of our
  beings. Some of us lost relatives and friends. All of us feel attacked. We
  are still learning how to cope. We continue to go through stages of loss and
  mourning.

  I have much to say about these events. This morning I will limit myself
  political issues. I will include some the spiritual issues in my sermon on
  Yom Kippur. This morning I will explain the motivation for Osama Bin Laden
  attacks on our country, discuss how the current crisis relates to Israel and
  say a few words about our relationship with our local Muslim community.

  Who is Osama bin Laden? He is too often simply described as a terrorist. We
  should not see Osama bin Laden as an independent operator or some sort of
  international gangster. He leads an armed struggle to change the world.

  His movement grows out of a rejection of the values which form the foundation
  of our society. The modern world in which we live
  took shape in the age of reason. Medieval society saw religion as the only
  source of truth. Only those who possessed religious truth could know
  anything. The age of reason proclaims the thoughts of the individual to be a
  source of truth. Out of this basic principle grows: our deep respect for
  individual thought and political action, our affirmation of the freedom of
  the individual, our appreciation for the opinion of the individual and our
  devotion to democracy.

  We in the west live in societies based on the principles expressed in
  our Declaration of Independence, “That all men are created equal; that they
  are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that among them
  are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

  Islamic fundamentalists reject these basic ideas. They reject the value of an
  individual’s thoughts and rights. For them the individual cannot be a source
  of truth. They accept only one source of truth
  and only one truth.

  Their religion is the only source of truth. They reject the concept of civil
  authority. They accept only Islamic religious authority.
  They object to the spread of western values into the Muslim world.
  They object to the world-wide domination of western material culture, of
  McDonalds, Coca-Cola and MTV. Islamic fundamentalists object to western
  dress. They want Moslems to dress as Moslems.
  They want Moslems to think and act like Moslems. Islamic fundamentalists by
  their very nature and belief do not accept the concept of compromise.

  They have devoted themselves to the goal of establishing Islamic states
  through out the world. Today most of the countries with a predominately
  Muslim population are not Islamic states.

  In the Arab and Muslim world we find four kinds of government.
  1. Islamic States like Afghanistan and Iran
  In Islamic States the national leaders combine religious, political and
  military authority. This follows the pattern of the early centuries of Islam.
  The Caliphs succeeded the prophet Mohamed. The Caliph possessed religious,
  political and military authority. He ruled according to religious values. The
  Islamic fundamentalists want to establish this is the type of government
  throughout the Muslim world.

  2. Western style like Egypt
  In truth Egypt remains more of a dictatorship than a democracy. But still it
  follows a western style. The Egyptian leaders separate political authority
  from religious authority. The Egyptians live in the modern world and remain
  Muslims. Islamic fundamentalists want to overthrow such Western style
  regimes. The Egyptian government faces an ongoing conflict with Egyptian
  Islamic fundamentalists, known as the Muslim Brotherhood. President Mubarik
  became President after the Muslim Brotherhood assassinated President Sadat. A
  few years ago the Muslim Brotherhood staged a series of attacks on tourists
  in Egypt. In an attempt to disrupt the Egyptian economy and overthrow the
  government

  3. Monarchy like Saudi Arabia
  In our eyes Saudi Arabia may appear to be an authoritarian Islamic state but
  in the eyes of the Islamic fundamentalists the Saudi royal family is corrupt.
  The Islamic fundamentalists believe the Saudi Royal family has sold out to
  the west. The Islamic fundamentalists say
  that the Saudi Royal family is too cozy with western business interests, and
  have taken on too many cultural trapping of the west
  The Islamic fundamentalists intensely attacked the Saudi decision to make
  common cause with the west against Saddam Hussain
  and the Saudi decision to allow non-Muslim foreigner troops to serve on
  sacred Arabian soil.

  4. Secular Leftist like Syria, Iraq, and Libya
  These states formerly depended on the support of the Soviet Union. For
  decades their leaders have spouted anti-west vocabulary. There used to be a
  large gap between these states and Islamic fundamentalists. Both were
  anti-west but had different visions of what the world should be like.
  Following the collapse of the Soviet Union these states and the Islamic
  fundamentalists have drawn closer.

  This is a quick overview. Within each category we could find differences and
  conflicts. Within the category of Islamic states,
  there is tension between Iran and the Taliban. Within the category of leftist
  states, there is tension between Syria and Iraq

  The Gulf War stands as the turning point in Islamic fundamentalist’s war with
  the west. The presence of American troops on Arabian soil deeply offended the
  Islamic fundamentalists. The American backing the royal families of Saudi
  Arabia and Kuwait against Sadam Hussain created a line in the sand between
  pro-western governments and anti-western forces.

  Osama bin Laden and his followers do not operate alone. A strong connection
  exists between the Osama bin Laden and other Muslim fundamentalists. The
  Taliban leaders of Afghanistan do not simply offer shelter to Osama bin
  Laden. They share his worldview and fully support his efforts. Hamas and
  Islamic Jihad in Gaza, the Hezbollah in Lebonan, and the Muslim Brotherhood
  in Egypt share his goals and his methods. There is a connection between the
  states which give harbor and support to this network of terror.

  Until last week many Americans saw the Islamic fundamentalists as strange
  people who lived far away. They can no longer be ignored.
  The struggle has become a war.

  Nine hundred years ago Pope Urban II declared a crusade to take Jerusalem
  from the Muslims. The Europeans Crusaders invaded the Muslim world and set up
  a European kingdom in the land of Israel
  with Jerusalem as its capital. The Crusader Kingdom held Jerusalem for 143
  years until Muslim forces led by Saladin defeated the Crusaders. Osama bin
  Laden sees himself as the new Saladin. As Saladin defeated the Crusaders, so
  Osama bin Laden wants to defeat the United States. He wants to rid the Moslem
  world of western influence. He wants to drive the westerners out of the
  Moslem world.

  The effort to defeat him will not be quick and simple it will not be clean
  and easy. Our President has correctly identified the current conflict as war.
  Our country stands unified in support of our president and our armed forces
  in the war which has begun.

  ISRAEL
  How does the current crisis affect Israel? I know that we have heard
  arguments that America became a target for the terrorists because of American
  support for Israel. As I have explained this is not the reason for the
  Islamic Fundamentalists opposition to America. The American People are not
  buying the “blame it on Israel” argument. The mood in this country is not to
  pull back from the world in fear but rather to attack the terrorist network.

  This week America saw video of Palestinians dancing and singing
  in celebration of the terror attacks. Yes, Yassir Arafat offered words of
  condemnation but in Palestinian street we saw joy. This week the Palestinian
  authority has tried to prevent coverage of the jubilation in the streets. It
  has confiscated video tape and arrested reporters.

  Americans see the Palestinian people associating with “them” as opposed to
  “us.” Many years ago, Abba Eban said, “The Palestinians never miss an
  opportunity to miss an opportunity.”

  Western sympathy for the Palestinians has diminished. Just a week ago some
  American Jews expressed concern that we were losing the propaganda struggle
  with Palestinians. Local Jewish leaders expressed concern about bias
  reporting concerning Israel in the (local paper). Today Americans feel closer to
  Israel. Americans identify with Israelis as victims of suicide attacks.
  Americans want to learn about security measures from Israel. Our airlines
  want to learn from El Al.

  The strong international response to the acts of terror in America may even
  convince the Palestinian leadership to stop the suicide bombings in Israel,
  to realize that the only path to resolution of the conflict is through
  negotiations.

  I think that we have to wait to see the events of the coming months
  to see how our war with the terrorists plays out before we can draw
  conclusions about the long term impact on Israel.

  I want to share one last thought. We feel a strong sense today in America of
  “us” and “them”, of good guys and bad guys. We have to be careful in
  distinguishing who is the “us” and who is the “them”.

  In our Yom Kippur liturgy we repent for the “sin of Xenophobia”
  In the past we may have seen this choice of wording as a forced attempt on
  the part of the editor to maintain the acrostic list of sins. This year the
  “sin of Xenophobia” is a real and present danger.

  In no way should we view all Muslims or all Arabs as enemies of America. As
  Jews we know what it means to be separated out and discriminated against.
  Many of us have personal connections to Muslims here in our community. I
  certainly do through my interfaith work. As a congregation we have had
  for many years a very positive connection with the mosque in **. It
  is important for us to reach out and offer support. We are doing so as a
  congregation and we should do so as individuals. Together with other members
  of the ** Interfaith Resource Network we are planning services and study
  programs which you will hear about in the coming days.

  The Torah portion we read this morning tells us that as Abraham and Isaac
  journeyed to Mount Moriah. Abraham lifted up his eyes and “saw the place from
  afar.” Today peace seems distant. It is a place we can only see from afar.
  Peace in the world, and our peace of mind remain our goal and our dream.

  Abraham and Isaac climbed the mountain uncertain of what would happen at the
  top. The Torah tells us that they climbed together, hand in hand.

  As begin this New Year, we know that we face difficult months ahead. We face
  them as a caring congregation of friends. We face them as a united and strong
  nation in support of our president.

  We pray that the coming months bring healing to the broken of body and spirit
  and comfort to the bereaved. As we go forward we see may peace only from afar
  but in remains our goal. As we go forward we go forward together hand in hand
• 
  17

  British People Ask: Does America Know.....

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being a sociable sort of animal i enjoy the cut and thrust of lively pub banter in the mid-evening.

  however, there are only about 3 or 4 of us who take part in on-line discussion forums such as this.. time and again, because it is known that i take part in this forum, i am asked the same sort of question: .

  "do americans in general realise that the uk is totally 100% behind them in this present crisis, not just the politicians, but the grass roots of the country, do they know that we feel outraged at the wtc attack, as outraged as if it had been on london?".

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  wasasister

  I'm fond of the words found above the "Peace Arch", a structure at the Canadian boarder crossing in Washington State:
  "Children of a Common Mother"

  I've always been an Anglophile: lover of Monte Python, Blackadder, Absolutely Fabulous, Fawlty Towers, and the Royal Family (a lesser known comedy troupe). But underneath the wonderful humor of the British people is a stalwart and brave spirit; one which enabled them to survive the bombings of WWII and emerge stronger than ever. Our Mother has given us a legacy of courage.

  Now if you guys could just learn to hold your forks in the correct hand....
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  12

  The Intellectual Taliban

  by FrightMare in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of threads of this tapestry is the patent absurdity of darwinian evolution.

  my attacks on darwinism are not motivated in the least by any desire to defend any superstitious story of our origins.

  i believe that it will soon be possible to demonstrate mathematically that darwinian evolution is impossible.

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  wasasister

  My Dear Fright:
  You have rather preempted any attempt to respond or debate with you, since early in your posting history you declared you were a deliberate flamer, whose purpose was to stir the pot. Why would anyone want to carry on a serious discussion with you?

  Why not reintroduce yourself, telling the board of your true intentions and beliefs rather than promoting ideas solely to foment an argument.
• 
  8

  A Texan and Totalitarianism

  by GinnyTosken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  congress is now reviving a proposal killed last year by senator phil gramm, the texas republican who was then chairman of the senate banking committee.

  the bill, introduced by the clinton administration, would give the treasury secretary broad power to bar foreign countries and banks from access to the american financial market unless they cooperated with money-laundering investigations.

  it was strongly opposed by the banking industry and mr. gramm.. "i was right then and i am right now" in opposing the bill, mr. gramm said yesterday.

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  wasasister

  Irony indeed.

  The Russians defeated the much better armed German Army in WWII by sucking them deep inside their vast land and then cutting off their supply lines.

  Terrorist money is now deeply invested in US and other nations friendly to the US. Now is the time to cut off their supply lines.

  It was reported some time ago (and I don't have the link, so this may only be one of those rumors) that as the FBI was flying one of the suspects from the first World Trade Center attack over NYC, an agent looked down at the twin towers and said to the prisoner: "Looks like they're still here." The prisoner said, "They wouldn't be if we'd had more money."
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  64

  Bush's speech -- I'll be the first to admit...

  by Seeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...it was an effective speech.

  i was impressed, and thought it only fair to say so here given the recent political discussions.

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  wasasister

  Yes, he's always had good writers, but tonight was the first time I thought his delivery matched the content. Maybe he's been to Theocratic Ministry School?
• 
  40

  Boston Tea Party--A Terrorist Act?

  by GinnyTosken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm not sure what i think about this myself and am curious to hear your opinions.. here is an account from paul johnson's a history of the american people.. ginny.

  the origins of the boston tea party had nothing to do with america.

  the east india company had got itself into a financial mess.

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  wasasister

  Don't know how this thread turned into a Wade Cook seminar, but the original subject deserves consideration. What defines a terrorist act as opposed to an act of patriotism?
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  11

  Taliban, Lot, and Men of Sodom

  by GinnyTosken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reading an article in the new york times, i came across a description of the taliban and mullah omar, the man who started the movement:.

  isolating the taliban has been easy but ineffective because they insulate themselves.

  television is banned.

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  wasasister

  Great post, Ginny; and as usual, your sources are fascinating.

  As this situation unfolds, I can see more and more parallels between hard-line JW's and Islamic fundamentalists.

  I had a disturbing conversation with my Witness daughter today. We were looking at the recent People magazine, which features many disturbing images of the destruction. She seemed greatly shaken by this, so I asked her if she had been out in service since the events of last Tuesday. She said she had, and that they had been "encouraged" to keep their message simple and to briefly offer a tract. I replied that was good, because some of the literature - as recently as the Revelation Climax Book - featured graphic pictures very much like the ones we were looking at in the magazine. I suggested people at the doors would not find such images comforting. I also pointed out that those illustrations went so far as to show smiling happy faces, depicting some who would be happy to see such destruction.

  Her reply chilled me to the bone. She said, "Well, I'll be happy when that happens, too, because it will mean this mess is finally over!" Trying not to show my consternation, I said, "Of course that means many times the deaths we are hearing about must occur. I wouldn't expect the public to understand how that is a good thing." We went back and forth a bit on this topic and she was clearly uncomfortable, but her concluding remark was:
  "How many chances should these people get, anyway?"

  This is my daughter, the most gentle, kind person you can imagine...rejoicing at prospect of the greusome deaths of billions of people. I was sick at my stomach.

  Most JW's have the exact same mind-set as the Islamic extremists: "If God wills it, death is good."
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  39

  REBUTTAL to Why Americans are hated

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  [edited] i appreciate saintsatan's post.

  this rebuttal is not intended as any negative response to saintsatan.

  i think he did a good thing to post an important point of view, a view that needs consideration to balance out the actioins of political leaders everywhere.

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  wasasister

  A little chicken shit country decides to declare war on America, knowing full and well that they would be better off in all ways after they lost the war because America would help them with buckets of money and other resources.

  Ummmm, Sleepy, did you not read the context of this? Farkel was describing the plot of a comedy movie from the 60's NOT a real event. It was funny, go rent it and see if the country in question was or was not "chicken shit".