Posts by Xander

17

My story is to long to tell......

by zugzzwan in

jw
friends

i am new to this forum but i have for the past several days been reading posts from people that for the first time in 26 years have pasts, memories and feelings like my self.

suffice to say that i too was born and raised in "the truth".

i have at one time or another been, a ms, a vacation pioneer, a regular pioneer, a disfellowship individual, a re-instated individual, publicly reproved, privately reproved and finally for the past 7 years a man who they don't even come on my property cause he's a nut who might shoot you and will at the very least call the police and have you arrested for trespassing individual.. unlike so many others though i find no personal desire to rant or rage against the machine.

Xander

...if I'm wrong...

See, that's how my wife comments, too. It kind of bugs me.

I'm not wrong. *You're* not wrong.

THEY are wrong. Whether or not their bible even tells them what happens in the afterlife, the book isn't 'inspired'. It contains a lot of...well, interesting...stories. That's it. No divine revelation within. There are so many contradictions in it, so much question about its current state, it is useless as a book to build a religion on.

I as others feel that it is impossible to have a relationship with any form of God

If you mean 'the christian god' and christian teachings, I agree with you. If you haven't shut the door on spirituality yet, I invite you to think outside the box some. There are a LOT of other teachings out there - not controlled by a church or central body of men - that make for interesting comparison.

8

Why did we believe such stupidity?

by anglise in

jw
friends

another brilliant example of circular reasoning from the wtbts.

*** jv 704 31 how chosen and led by god ***.

chapter 31. how chosen and led by god.

Xander

So, why are j-dubs so haughty?
.
.
.
.
.
.
Well, they know they have the one TRUE invisible friend! (^ducks^)

2

Axis of "Just as Evil"

by RunningMan in

jw
friends

"in speech, bush calls iraq, iran and north korea 'axis of evil"-n.y. times, 1/30/02.

angered by snubbing, libya, china, syria form axis of 'just as evil'.

beijing (satirewire.com) - bitter after being snubbed for.

Xander

From www.satirewire.com, although also posted in our local newspaper.

Great site, by the way, some awesome work there (if you like satire, anyway).

28

HELP PLEASE!

by TheStar in

jw
friends

i'm a newbie around here.

i have only posted once but i've come in here almost every day to read for about the past month.

this place has been therapeutic for me as i'm currently trying to make my exit out of the borg.

Xander

As an addendum to the above, I'm sure you've seen by now they maintain a healthy amount of double standards.

Unfortunately, you seem to fall into the 'biased against' catagory, which sucks. My wife and I both lucked out and fell into the 'biased for' catagory. Like it helps a lot, or something. We changed congregations (so the folks we grew up with could always just assume we were doing okay over in the other congregation). Then, we just stopped going to meetings, stopped going out in field service (so the folks in the new congregation could just assume we were lazy or something).

We got a call or two from 'concerned' elders a year ago, ignored them, and never heard from anyone again. We still keep in contact with our families (both still 'in', with the exception of my never-in dad), and she even criticizes the org to her family a lot now. You may think you know how good j-dub 'denial mode' is, but these folks have it down to an art.

(A suggestion, if possible - you and your husband could transfer to another hall, and you just never show up there - that way your husband doesn't have to keep explaining to people who knew you where you are).

28

HELP PLEASE!

by TheStar in

jw
friends

i'm a newbie around here.

i have only posted once but i've come in here almost every day to read for about the past month.

this place has been therapeutic for me as i'm currently trying to make my exit out of the borg.

Xander

Keep in mind, when people say 'fade away', many (including me) are not talking about missing more and more meetings, faking field service time, etc.

'Fade away', in this context, means to me (and others), "STOP". Stop everything, go to no more meetings, go out in service no longer.

Just don't DA yourself. They will not admit it, but they do have a problem keeping their numbers up. They won't kick you out if they don't feel that HAVE to.

As has been said by others, what triggers them feeling they HAVE to is...well, not much. But just being 'inactive' and missing meetings isn't it. You might get a call or something from the elders, but if you have an answering machine or voice mail, it shouldn't be hard to 'miss' them.

Now, about the husband....don't know what to say here. My wife was pretty much in the same boat your husband was a year ago. It just takes time to get them to 'unlearn' what they were taught.

BE WARY, THOUGH....the elders will CERTAINLY talk to your husband about a 'separation' if you are pushing too hard and he talks to them about it. Divorce, no...separation, yes. They almost forced my mom into it (she was a witness, my dad wasn't).

Note that if you had grown up in the 'truth' or had family currently in the org in good standing, this would probably not occur. You have indicated that both of these conditions are not true, which will make it hard. (And, actually, if your husband also 'came in the from the world', it wouldn't be such a big deal - but you mentioned his whole family was still in? So, he was probably raised in it, yes?)

12

was there anything good?

by singsongboi in

jw
friends

i sometimes ask myself this question - i think i was 'there' for nearly 40 years and wonder at the waste.. what good came from it?

.

did anyone really find some good in all of the things we did?

Xander

Hmmmm...let me think....

- I'm a much better public speaker (wait, no I wasn't, didn't get any better until taking classes at college)

- Uhhh...I study better? (oh, crap, college again, and anyway - not according to the WTBTS, now I look up quotes and verify primary sources - try doing that for a bookstudy and see how far it will get you!)

- More love for my fellow man! Yeah, that's it, my wife and I actually contribute to charities that actually HELP peop....oh, crap, that's not something the WTBTS teaches, is it? Damn....

(BTW, ashi, I love your pic!)

11

When "All" doesn't mean All

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

the march 15 issue of the watchtower carries a study article with the theme text; "look!

i am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.

" (matthew 28:20).

Xander

What of the intervening 1900 years? Where was Christ? He's certainly not found in the annals of the WTS. So where was he?

How could Jesus say that he would be with his disciples all the days until the conclusion of the system of things? By WTS reckoning it can be ignored. It just doesn't fit into their reckoning.

You know, I've wondered along these lines.

I mean, we *know* what the society was like back then. Their fear of aluminum (Satan's metal!), celebrating Christmas, use of the cross, heh - who has the quote in their sig about 'healing UV rays'. Uggghhh.

Now, take a look at some of the other religious organizations at the time. Were not, say, various protestant sects more closely in line with 50's and 60's era WTBTS teaching?

So, how come those teaching were 'the light of God' in, say, the 50's, but when the protestants had them around the turn of the century, they were false teachings?

And why, when 'Jesus returned', did he then pick them as the 'true religion'? I mean, c'mon, we *know* what they believed then!?!

17

Why I Became an Inactive Witness

by Dutchy in

jw
friends

i used to be a gungho witnesses.

i was even a full time pioneer with small children and i used to drag my kids with me from door to door, in the heat of summer and in the cold of winter.

goin from door to door in buildings where crime was rampant and where i should not have been in the first place.

Xander

I think my wife might fall into this catagory.

Near as I can tell, she is clinging to her childhood...memories?...and doesn't really want to throw away EVERYTHING she was taught. I think she is justifying leaving the organization because of all the corrupt people.

In short, the built-in defense they brainwashed into us. "No matter what happens, it's just the result of imperfect men, the organization is never wrong."

Which, when you think about it from a mind-control POV, is beautiful. Memberships with the UN? Just a couple misguided brothers signing the WTBTS up. New position on voting? Well, a couple brothers back in the day were imperfect in their understanding....blahblahblah...

That reasoning even kept ME in longer than I should have stayed. 'The organization is great, it's just the people in it....'.

I'm sure some of the j-dub->Catholics(ex.) left the org still thinking that, so were only really looking for a different group of people to believe in.

I think I stopped believing this before I left. I mean, once you find rampart corruption of (almost) every member of an organization at every level, you have to start wondering if maybe something else is wrong. And so, I, too, stopped believing in men as messengers of divine instruction.

17

Why I Became an Inactive Witness

by Dutchy in

jw
friends

i used to be a gungho witnesses.

i was even a full time pioneer with small children and i used to drag my kids with me from door to door, in the heat of summer and in the cold of winter.

goin from door to door in buildings where crime was rampant and where i should not have been in the first place.

Xander

Well, I feel that I don't even want to hear about any religion and now I am having doubts as to whether a god really exists or not. I guess I have a lot of baggage to work out.

I had (have?) similar feelings. Not knocking anyone here (definately not, in my short time here, I've really grown fond of this group - a lot of great people), but I've always wondered how someone goes from being a JW to another Christian group.

Maybe it's just because the j-dubs always emphasized every other religion's 'false teachings' all the time. When I look at any other organized religion, I can only see the holes in it that the WTBTS poked. Of course, when I look back at the WTBTS, I can only see the holes in their doctrine *I* poked (with the help of fine folks here and at other sites).

So, I, uhhh....found an alternative...

11

When "All" doesn't mean All

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

the march 15 issue of the watchtower carries a study article with the theme text; "look!

i am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.

" (matthew 28:20).

Xander

That *would* make a funny Monty Python sketch, though...

Booming Voice: "And David smote them from twilight until the evening of the next day, and not a man of them escaped....

Much Quieter Voice: "except four hundred men who mounted camels and fled...."

Booming Voice: "Oh, right, except them...."

Much Quieter Voice: "They weren't dead yet...."

Booming Voice: "Yes, I see that, now...where was I...ahhh, right, 'and not a man of them escaped....'