this post is for any of you out there who have questions but have been afriad to search for answers outside of your organization/religion (this applies to any "christian" religion - not just jw's).
as for the rest of you heathens - no response please (tee hee - just joshin' .
i have been df'd for many years but really had no desire to go back to the bible until about 2 years ago.
One of several religions that practice witchcraft. Although, other usages of the word exist. gsx mentioned that was what she 'ended up' in her post above.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
...some ancient wisdom this way comes?
pulling over from another thread.... i'm curious how many have dabbled in witchcraft/spiritism after leaving the jws.
or, perhaps, before joining.. i'm curious what experiences have been had.
Looking back on the 'demonic' encounters, would you still descibe what you saw/felt/thought as associated with demons now? If not, what then?
if there are witches among us, they won't tell you
I've know two witches - my mother who is now convinced demons were trying to keep her away from 'the truth' (still a JW), and a girl in college. I was, however, brainwashed by the dubs at the time, so I avoided her with a 10-foot pole.
As to the local bookstores/libraries section on the occult...it is pretty...uhhh...useless.
There are basically two types of books in it:
1) Christians discussing how occultism is worshipping satan which will lead to you burning in hell forever and how to save those involved with it praise the lord!
2) 'Fluffy-bunny' wiccans who write in a style difficult to attribute attachment to reality with (IE. they sound high).
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
this post is for any of you out there who have questions but have been afriad to search for answers outside of your organization/religion (this applies to any "christian" religion - not just jw's).
as for the rest of you heathens - no response please (tee hee - just joshin' .
i have been df'd for many years but really had no desire to go back to the bible until about 2 years ago.
Easy answer to that:
Trust No One
(gsx...WICCAN! You an x-JW or never-JW? Curious - I started a thread over hyah: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=26302&site=3 to talk a bit about witchcraft, et al. It's easy enough on this forum to find a christian willing to talk about their beliefs, but other than atheism, not many other people seem to want to talk. I'm curious what thoughts you have on your practice...especially if from an x-JW perspective!)
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
based on what i read from yadirf's thread on alternative service, it does give me the impression that the wts and the jehovah's witnesses hate the military, and that any jw who joins the military will be df'd.. therefore, i post the questions if jws hate the military?
i'd like to see all your views and explanations.. btw rrmayer or rick, thanks for posting the "soldier's creed".
Well, I know that's what they'd TRY to do, but I'm arguing that I don't think they CAN do it.
I mean, they can't announce you DA'd yourself without your consent (or you'd sue them, and hey, you're in the military with nothing better to do in your off time and no cost of living expenses, so...).
And, they can't DF you. For obvious reasons.
They could announce you being reproved, but that's all, I would think...
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
never ever, ever confuse greatness with popularity.
compared to music here in the u.s. british music is as good as it gets.
it's true that bands like pulp, suede, blur, oasis, manic street preachers, rarely get any airplay here in the states, but that's all i listen too.
Sorry, but music on THIS side of the pond is the superior.
Nine Inch Nails.
All I gotta say. Sorry, argument over.
(Actually, I COULD say more - I mean, Appalachian folk music...the Canadians have some good small acts, etc.)
I think the US gets a bad rap because the only thing most of the world sees is our 'pop culture'. Our 'pop culture' sucks bad, and is fueled by the constant stream of teenagers we have. Our small bands are pretty damn good, though.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
based on what i read from yadirf's thread on alternative service, it does give me the impression that the wts and the jehovah's witnesses hate the military, and that any jw who joins the military will be df'd.. therefore, i post the questions if jws hate the military?
i'd like to see all your views and explanations.. btw rrmayer or rick, thanks for posting the "soldier's creed".
Really? They can announce you DAing yourself for joining the military?
How does that work?
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.
in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.
now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?
Valis, did YOU read those?
The New Testament refers to the High Priest Caiaphas. Records of the Temple of Jerusalem where destroyed and history has not been able to verify that Caiaphas, like Christ, existed. If no evidence existed of Caiaphas when the New Testament was embraced by the Christians of the second century, then it would have been a fact lost to history. But now, 1,950 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, a public works project building a water park in November 1990 accidentally uncovered an ancient burial cave. The inscription in the burial chamber was that of the Caiaphas family...Though the New Testament has many historical errors, the fact is that many of its points have been proven historically correct
So, what, if one person the NT recorded but couldn't be found in the historical record was later found, this is valid for proof?
How? So, no records existed of Caiaphas before except in the NT. Big deal. Did he resurect the dead? Did turn water into wine? Did he walk on water? Did he start one of the largest religious movements in human history?
So, why does not record exist of the person purported to have done all of the above?
The entire Caiaphas thing is a red herring the size of which herrings don't usually grow to.
And, this is good, too. Continuing from above:
The debate over the divinity of Christ may never end, but historical evidence has become more supportive of the fact that Jesus can be proved historically to have lived, to have been a dominant figure during his lifetime and of a major concern to the establishment of the Temple and of Rome.
What? Where? When did they present proof? They used typical WT-reasoning here...'Well, this person could only be proved to exist by reading the bible, then later, science caught up. Obviously, this is proof the bible is always right...' [8>]
Reading through a few of your links, I can't find any reasoning more compelling than the above. To top it off, several of the articles admit in the start 'we believe Jesus existed, and here we will prove it'. Hardly unbiased.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.
in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.
now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?
About the most compelling evidence is that...
The Dead Sea scrolls, which record in some detail the events of the world in the time and (relative) place of the gospels, manage to completely omit any reference to him. Or, even bother to name any of his apostles. Or the beginnings of the christian movement (the scrolls run till about 70 CE). Certainly they don't record any miracles occurring in Jerusalem at the time (great earthquakes? curtains in the temple being rent in two? dead rising from their tombs?)
IOW, there is no secular historical evidence he existed, and, in fact, of the historical evidence we DO have of the period, the state of the world could not be described as anything out of the ordinary.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
"i pronounce you husband and wife.. you may now shake hands.".
"you say you're a sister and.
yet you are wearing a pant suit?!?".
LOL @ Fredhall getting invited.
Okay, that was funny. Thanks - needed a good laugh.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
...some ancient wisdom this way comes?
pulling over from another thread.... i'm curious how many have dabbled in witchcraft/spiritism after leaving the jws.
or, perhaps, before joining.. i'm curious what experiences have been had.
LOL! That's okay, I got the skeptical part down okay.
I'd describe my current state of mind as 'I want to believe'. I don't really yet. But, I want to.
Coming from a technology/science background, I tend to find it hard to believe things I cannot see, experience, or verify.
Which is I guess what I'm looking for here. Other people who HAVE seen or experienced something else.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
