zev

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Posts by zev

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  13

  More New Light?

  by individuals wife in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  interesting comment made in the chat room yesterday.... it was noted that during a talk by a bethelite at a recent dc he made the following point - the reason we are not on the other side of armageddon is that we (jws) do not and have not listened to authority.. now it has to wait like the disobedient israelites had to.. until the next generation.

  now, i would presume this is some more of this 'new light' because i'd never heard this thought before... has anyone else heard it?.

  can anyone elaborate further.... i wasn't there myself.... interesting implications though, the disobedient israelite generation did not get into the promised land did they?

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  zev

  i agree....if that statement was made with the ok of the g.b. by a bethelite...i'd say my days as a jw are done right freeking now!

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
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  13

  More New Light?

  by individuals wife in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  interesting comment made in the chat room yesterday.... it was noted that during a talk by a bethelite at a recent dc he made the following point - the reason we are not on the other side of armageddon is that we (jws) do not and have not listened to authority.. now it has to wait like the disobedient israelites had to.. until the next generation.

  now, i would presume this is some more of this 'new light' because i'd never heard this thought before... has anyone else heard it?.

  can anyone elaborate further.... i wasn't there myself.... interesting implications though, the disobedient israelite generation did not get into the promised land did they?

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  zev

  is there anyone who can actually confirm hearing this?

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
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  14

  Change in WTS doctrine under way!

  by biblexaminer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i posted a discussion on the bible research page with the same subject name.

  it involves the 'quiet' new doctrine of the co, and i am sure he's not alone.

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  zev

  yeah...you know, i might have even heard this dribble and slept through it! dang. whats the talk titled? is it new for the september rounds of dribble visits?

  hurl hurl hurl.

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
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  9

  NEWBIES/TROLLS/LURKERS ***CASE # 2 ***

  by zev in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  again, i bring you another heart wrenching experience.

  from the book in search of chritian freedom, raymond franz, commentary press, pages 353-356.. you new ones here, ask yourselves....is this the kind of love that jesus would have show man?.

  this is long.

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  zev

  Again, I bring you another heart wrenching experience. From the book In Search of Chritian Freedom, Raymond Franz, Commentary Press, Pages 353-356.

  You new ones here, ask yourselves....Is this the kind of love that Jesus would have show man?

  This is long. Please prepare yourself for what you are about to read.
  You have been warned...

  ___

  Since all disfellowshiping actions are reported to the headquarters organization, it is not unaware of what is happening. The pathetic case of Percy Harding illustrates this, for it took place virtually on the international headquarters' doorstep. In 1910, when about twenty years old, Percy, a native of western Canada, began reading the writings of Pastor Russell and in six months had read some 3,000 pages of material. He resigned from the Protestant church of which he was a member and found himself totally alone in his new belief among his townspeople. He began "witnessing" and formed two groups in the area and held baptisms at a nearby river. He writes:

  In 1918 I quit a good job to become a colporteur. My territory covered hundreds of square miles, mostly along the railways, from southern Alberta to the Pacific coast. I also covered the country territory on foot, carrying two small bags of books. Often I walked as much as 15 to 25 miles a day.

  After seven years of this activity, on May 25, 1925, he went to Brooklyn, New York, to serve at the Watch Tower headquarters. After about four years, the attitude developing under the presidency of Rutherford, and the conduct of some exercising oversight left Percy disillusioned. In 1929 he terminated his work at the headquarters.

  Despite this, he remained associated and active with the same congregation in Brooklyn for the following fifty-six years. Of what then happened he writes:

  From May, 1925, until December, 1981, I remained in the same congregation until I was disfellowshiped for talking about God's Word to a few of my friends. This was unbelievable, and, so far as the Society is concerned, a disgraceful performance. The judicial committee had a letter from another board of elders in a different congregation. They had disfellowshiped a friend of mine. They questioned him at length about other people he had talked to about the Bible. He caved in and told them, mentioning my name among others. So this letter from the elders, including things I and others had said, was presented to me with a request that I comment on it. I told the committee that I had nothing to say, that what went on between me and my friends was strictly a private matter and was nobody else's business. They promised me a copy of the letter, but I never received it.
  Then they started asking questions, the most important being, "Do you believe that the Society is God's organization and that it is bringing forth truth?" So I said, "There is nothing in God's Word to indicate that God ever used an ‘organization' to bring forth truth. From Moses, down through all the prophets to John and the Revelation, it was always an individual."
  There were three committee meetings, the last being at Bethel. The night I was disfellowshiped, Harry Peloyan [a long-time member of the Watch Tower's writing staff] made a speech at the Kingdom Hall, bringing a charge that was not even discussed in any of the committee meetings, that of disrupting the unity of the congregation. He misused 2 John 10, 11, in instructing 175 people to cut me cold. After the meeting everyone filed out, passing me by like I was a leper.

  Percy was 91 years old and in poor health. Whether one may consider his understanding of certain scriptures as correct or mistaken, the fact remains that the issue arose, not because he was creating a disturbance, one that was congregationally evident, but because of private conversations with friends. No one in the congregation had complained of his being an "agitator" and the matter became an issue only as the result of a letter from another congregation that initiated investigation and interrogation by elders into his private remarks on Scriptural subjects among personal friends. (Compare the accusation against the apostle Paul and his defense at Acts 24:5-13.) On a trip to the northeast in 1982, I visited Percy Harding at his home on 6th Street in Brooklyn. He sat, seemingly dwarfed by the large chair, a small, frail-looking man obviously weakened by age and illness.

  I asked myself how anyone in his right mind could view a person like that, having no position or particular influence, as constituting such a danger that, despite his some seventy years of association, it was deemed necessary that he be disfellowshiped and cut off from all his lifetime associates. I thought that an organization must be extremely unsure of itself, feel an incredible sense of vulnerability, to ever consider such a frail, aged man as a threat. Concerning the effect the disfellowshiping had on his personal circumstances, he writes:

  Before this there were two [Witness] nurses who visited me, almost every week. They did some things for me that I was unable to do for myself, and, more importantly, they were on call if I needed them. Since I will be 92 years old on August 18, who knows when an emergency may arrive? After I was disfellowshiped, I called one of the nurses. Her husband answered the phone and said, "Ann is not allowed to talk to you.” Let me say again that the only thing the elders have against me is that I talked to a few of my friends about the Bible.

  In my conversations with Percy I found him to be a blunt-speaking man. He may well have been quite blunt in his discussions with the elders who judged him. But even if he had been more than blunt-had been caustic, even cantankerous-how could that possibly justify cutting off a 91-year-old man, single, ill, with no relatives within hundreds of miles, writing him off, along with his over seventy years of active association, as someone now to be ignored and forgotten? What heinous crime had he committed that could justify this? I find it difficult to understand how anyone claiming to be a disciple of the true Shepherd of the sheep, Jesus Christ, could be party to such an action, one that in my mind merits no less description than heartless. Yet, as stated, it took place on the very "doorstep" of the world headquarters of the Watch Tower Society.
  Percy is now dead, having died in his sleep on February 3, 1984. During the twenty-five months following his disfellowshipment, not a single person from the congregation with which he had been associated for 56 years came to see him or inquire of his needs.

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
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  11

  Ritzville Bound

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i leave tonight to head for ritzville.

  there have been so many kind thoughts and notes sent which i am going to pass on to erica when i get there.

  we even had a person from germany send $80 for flowers.

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  zev

  good luck.

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
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  36

  most HATED thing about the meetings ...

  by alliwannadoislive in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey ya'll ... ain't tuesdays, thursdays and sundays even better nowadays ?.

  i was wondering what it is that you hated most about the meets ?.

  the one thing that used to really rile me was the pressure to control the children - the frowns and the disapproving looks when they were just behaving like normal kids .... the worst of it all for me was seeing any little person being taken outside and hearing the loud slaps even when the door was closed .... what is it that you least miss ?

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  zev

  i hate them all.....cuz they keep waking me up dammit!

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
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  18

  Newbies! The Deception:An Example

  by zev in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yesterday, in this thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9805&site=3 i spouted these words: happened to drag rays book, isocf from its hidding place in my car....at lunch time today.. i opened to any page, i needed to brighten my day like no other j-dub borg book, could ever do.. .

  i found a deception for the many newbies, trolls and plants that have been visiting us here in spiritual paradise, aka:simons board .

  i cant post it till tommorow, because i cant bring that book into the house while the j-dub wife is trolling around.

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  zev

  a shameless bump up.

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
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  15

  HELP! - I'm Torn

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there's no doubt that in many religious philosophies, believers are advised not to fight with evil; not to resist.

  jesus certainly advised his followers not to "resist evil.".

  and that's why i'm torn.. i believe, as do most of you here, that the watchtower bible & tract society is evil; a manifest, clear, present, and palpable evil.

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  zev

  Francoise:
  I think I hear where your coming from. I also want to do more. At present, I cannot, for obvious reasons. Even when the news of the lawsuit was announce by silentlambs, I could not even bring myself to email, fax or otherwise call agencys to help spread the word. I had to have "somebody" else do it for me, for fear my name would be attached to it and thereby give me away.

  Yes I want to do more. Trying to talk to dub's will get me nowhere. They won't listen, as well as I wouldn't listen to such talk years ago when apostates were canvasing the local d.c's trying to spread the word. I was as closed minded then as my wife is now.

  And thats wherein the most fustration lies. I cannot even begin to express an oposing view to her with out her jumping to the apostate band wagon. I've asked her to stop calling me that. Its what they call us, its just a name for something they cant describe properly.

  Anways...like i said..I think I can see where your coming from.

  For now, I have to remain content to stay here, with people of outstanding character and friendship and try my best to study and learn all i can. research and development. Because the day will come when I must get off the fence. And I must be the one who is absolutely positive of what I am doing. No dub will do it for me this time.

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
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  18

  Newbies! The Deception:An Example

  by zev in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yesterday, in this thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9805&site=3 i spouted these words: happened to drag rays book, isocf from its hidding place in my car....at lunch time today.. i opened to any page, i needed to brighten my day like no other j-dub borg book, could ever do.. .

  i found a deception for the many newbies, trolls and plants that have been visiting us here in spiritual paradise, aka:simons board .

  i cant post it till tommorow, because i cant bring that book into the house while the j-dub wife is trolling around.

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  zev

  update:

  the online link to the brochure referenced above is here: http://www.freeminds.org/legal/custody.htm

  my thanks to gwen for providing the link.

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
• 
  18

  Newbies! The Deception:An Example

  by zev in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yesterday, in this thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9805&site=3 i spouted these words: happened to drag rays book, isocf from its hidding place in my car....at lunch time today.. i opened to any page, i needed to brighten my day like no other j-dub borg book, could ever do.. .

  i found a deception for the many newbies, trolls and plants that have been visiting us here in spiritual paradise, aka:simons board .

  i cant post it till tommorow, because i cant bring that book into the house while the j-dub wife is trolling around.

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  zev

  Mommie dark said:

  I almost puked the first time I found the Custody booklet online.

  where? do you still have the url? could you post it here? please? thanks

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED