.
the latest wt study article seemed like an article to prep the masses for 'new light' to be revealed in the very near future.. i have never seen an article like this one where they summarized their 'flashes of light' in their history in this manner and bombarded the minds with the need to accept all and any change within the org.. it could be for the purpose of getting the rank and file to accept a pretty big change or a series of big changes very soon.. what do you think?
what do you think it'll be?.
If I had to guess which doctrines would be "New Lighted" I would say...
1914 - it strains their credibility. I'll bet few JW's buy the 'generation is not really a generation' crap.
Blood - liability and legitimacy as a mainstream religion (which is where the Org wants to go)
I agree this seems like their warming up the lightbulb!
-FW
after reading experiences and correspondence that some have posted on this site i think it might be a good idea to share what has been somewhat effective in conversations with entrenched jw family and friends.
when i was just "waking up" my mind was so occupied with the things i learned that i paid little attention to how i presented my point of view to jw's.
i often employed the "shot-gun" approach using the research i unveiled along with a healthy dose of outrage.
How do they do it?
INFORMATION CONTROL
In order to buttress their position the Society must completely erode confidence in any information that does not stem from them. Scientists, Psychologists, Historians, and Archeologists are heavily discounted when they carry messages contrary to the Society's teachings. Religious information from theologians, or former JW's is especially scandalized as having malicious agenda's or being influenced by Satan. The sheer repetition of counsel and advice regarding this paranoia over outside information builds a formidable defense mechanism in the minds of believers. Almost subconsciously the JW looks upon contradictory material with suspicion. When material poses a direct threat to the organization, the average JW's becomes immediately and many times unreasonably skeptical of it's content. Even reading from a Watchtower article can trigger this paranoia.
You may even remember this yourself when you were still "in". How did you feel when you read about some researcher saying they recently found human fossil evidence dating thousands or millions of years before the Society say humans were alive? Do you remember thinking an old watchtower magazine quote was probably a forgery? Or when you spoke with a 'worldly' person who was convince Jesus answered their prayers; do you remember thinking they were fooling themselves? Or how about the physiological response your body had when you first decided to actually investigate an "Apostate" website. Do you remember looking over your shoulder or jumping when you thought anyone might be coming?
FEAR, SHAME, GUILT
It has been said that fear is the greatest motivator. The Watchtower Society uses fear so much that it changes the way a normal person thinks. There is perhaps no greater fear to a living being than death. When a human or animal believes they may die, instincts kick in to override all competing behavior. This happens to me when I fly in an airplane. I could be sound asleep, comfortable knowing that flying is the safest form of transportation. However many times I've awoke with a surge of adrenaline bracing for impact after a little turbulence. All that mental reassurance about the safety of flying went right out the window! In just one year, try to imagine how many times a JW is taught to equate leaving their religion with death.
The Society has also learned to reinforce the fear of death with other social pressures such as shame and guilt. People who have left the 'Truth' are always depicted as foolish, irresponsible, selfish or evil. Disfellowshipping is an effective tool to enforce this social shame tactic. When advice is given as to how best use our time, the congregation is nearly always made to feel guilty for indulging in any activity other than "kingdom interests". It’s amazing how many posters here have reported feeling they could “never do enough” while a JW.
I think it's important to understand the mindset that JW's are conditioned to adopt because they will inevitably play out upon you, the exiting JW. As a friend or family member you expect to have a more compelling voice when reasoning with them. In many respects you do, however it's very easy to lose that voice if you're not careful.
When you speak with JW friends or family adversely about "the Truth" they become very alert. All of their fears have been trained to be sensitized to threats to their religion, and now you are presenting a threat. To them, there must be something wrong with you to cause these things to come out of your mouth. What could it be? Have you been slacking at meetings? Have you been hanging around with an apostate or worldly person? Have you *gasp* been reading on the internet! Have you given in to a life of debauchery that you are now trying to justify? Are you just an obnoxious self-centered asshole? All of these things are likely to be reeling through their minds when you speak. They are looking for something to placate their fears. They need something to attach this behavior to. It is inconceivable that you may be correct, so they seek to dismiss what you say - not based on your message - but based on something totally irrelevant.
DEMEANOR
In my experience I have found a calm demeanor coupled with just a few compelling questions seems to go much further than a back and forth debate. I have tried to come across as the voice of reason rather than produce fact after fact damning their belief. In the Society's literature, they come across as reasonable whereas all non-witnesses are unreasonable. This fortifies the notion that non-JW's deserve to die. When speaking to JW's it important to be reasonable in your tone and manner. If you do not, it will be easy for your audience to focus on your unreasonableness.
QUESTIONS
Questions are also effective. Instead of saying:
"The Society has falsely predicted doomsday many times, yet they claim to be getting their insight from God!"
I would now say: "Why would God allow so many false dates to be printed?" - and leave it at that. No matter what their reply, you can just acknowledge it and drop it or change the subject.
You want to leave them thinking about your question, not thinking they won a debate, because in their minds they never lose debates over religion. It can be very difficult to do this, especially with family. However, I believe questions leave the greatest impact.
THEY TAKE IT PERSONALLY
When you speak to your friends and family about what you've learned they will take it as a personal attack. In your mind you might just be sharing what you've learned and how it impacts you. Even though you may not be on a campaign to destroy their faith, they nonetheless will perceive it that way. Even if you have not expectation that they should concede to your viewpoint, they will still view it as an attack on them, and resist. How can you avoid this?
I have been able to somewhat diffuse the tendency for it to be taken personally by qualifying such phrases with:
"To me this looks like their doing....."
"The impression it leaves me with is...."
"It leaves me feeling like..."
"I feel..."
"I believe..."
"That's what I get from it..."
I try not to use blanket statements or present something as a universal fact or truth. I apply my conclusions only to me. By putting the emphasis on myself, I take pressure off of them to defend their beliefs.
This seems to get JW's to at least consider the message.
Well this post is much longer than I was anticipating so I will leave it to the other O-POZ-TATES here to offer their own advice when talking with JW’s. No matter what you do though, you are more likely than not to be unsuccessful in immediately changing anyone's mind. Chances are that if you have any effect at all, it will be some time later. Afterall look how long it took you, you knucklehead!
That will finish our study. We can all now turn to page 27 in our songbooks and begin singing “Joyful Apostates”.
-FW
after reading experiences and correspondence that some have posted on this site i think it might be a good idea to share what has been somewhat effective in conversations with entrenched jw family and friends.
when i was just "waking up" my mind was so occupied with the things i learned that i paid little attention to how i presented my point of view to jw's.
i often employed the "shot-gun" approach using the research i unveiled along with a healthy dose of outrage.
And then there's always this:
after reading experiences and correspondence that some have posted on this site i think it might be a good idea to share what has been somewhat effective in conversations with entrenched jw family and friends.
when i was just "waking up" my mind was so occupied with the things i learned that i paid little attention to how i presented my point of view to jw's.
i often employed the "shot-gun" approach using the research i unveiled along with a healthy dose of outrage.
After reading experiences and correspondence that some have posted on this site I think it might be a good idea to share what has been somewhat effective in conversations with entrenched JW family and friends.
When I was just "waking up" my mind was so occupied with the things I learned that I paid little attention to how I presented my point of view to JW's. I often employed the "shot-gun" approach using the research I unveiled along with a healthy dose of outrage. Since then I've learned to tone down a bit and concentrate on getting through to the people I speak with rather than defending my choice.
W hen I faded, my experience went a little like this: I finally decided to explore those little nagging voices that told me something just wasn't right about the Society's teachings. I couldn't believe what I was learning - really. In the beginning I had this incredible distrust of anything that didn't complement my belief set. For example, I saw quotes in older watchtowers that showed the society making outlandish predictions on all sorts of dates. I read excerpts from Russell's old books that sounded like it came from a comic book. Over time though I realized that everything I read was actually true. The Society had so many whacky teachings that nobody would have to fabricate stories. The Society's own writings are such an awful embarrassment that I could hardly bite my tongue. Doomsday in 1914, 1925, 1941 and 1975, the Electronic Biola Machine, calculating dates from pyramid measurements, demonic vaccinations and on and on. The one thing that had the most impact on me though was reading the book Crisis of Conscience by former Governing Body member Raymond Franze. Without a doubt it showed the human origin of this religious system. There's no way I would continue to piss away my life in this controlling religion.
S o as I began to step away I faced a barrage from JW's especially those of my family. The entire system of fear, guilt, and pressure was being applied in full force. It makes a person very defensive. However in light of what I learned there's no way I could succumb to this pressure. Instead I unloaded all my research and sometimes added a healthy dose of sarcasm when berated. When the light is shined on the Society's teachings they are ridiculous....and when challenged I gave it right back with ample ridicule. Who in their right mind could continue to cling to this crack-pot belief system after having heard everything I learned?
What I noticed, to my utter surprise, was that my friends and family were not impressed by what I discovered. Instead they reverted to the standard defense mechanisms I recognized from when I was "in". Nothing seemed to penetrate. I found this very perplexing especially since I was someone they considered close to them.
Since then I've tried to understand what makes JW's cling to their illogical belief system even when faced with compelling evidence.
The Watchtower Society has a tough job to do. The New Testament gives no credence to a large intermediary organization that Christians must funnel their worship and activities through in order to be acceptable to God. Yet this is exactly what the Watchtower Society has become. Their entire existence depends on JW's relinquishing their individuality to the Society's cause in order to save themselves and others from impending doom.
How do they do it? Stay tuned for part 2....
okay, so i suppose i asked for this...but regardless i'm ready to puke!
last week i e-mailed an old "dub" friend from another city.
she's had some health issues and i hadn't heard from her for a few months, and wanted to know how she was doing....her brother also recently got married and i asked about that as well.
S-Belly,
It also kinda depends on what you originally wrote. However if it were me, and this was you last email, I wouldn't shy away from being up-front with her.
In the most resonable tone possible, I would tell her that "Yes, I have found the truth". Love among friends and family wasn't made to be conditional and used as a weapon. Tell her there's a reason why the Society is paranoid about the Internet and outside sources of information. There's a reason why most people are depressed as witnesses. There's a reason why the Society's growth has been stagnant. There's a reason why many people wake up and eventually leave the truth. The Society's perpetual claim that "the end is just around the corner" just doesn't hold water after 125 years! Tell her she should find these reasons.
I would make her a prediction though.
* In 20 years the 'End' will still be "Just around the corner".
* She will still feel like shes not doing enough even though most of her energy was spent in the Society's interests.
* She will have cast off many more freinds and family at the Society's behest.
* She will still feel like this world can't go on any longer.
* What she believed years ago will not be relevant after 20 years of "New light".
-FW
i hear a lot about the greenhouse affect, in the news and in environmental movements.
i also studied this topic when i was in college and remember seeing a lot of information on how many of these weather changes that are attributed to the greenhouse affect, have repeated themselves many times throughout history and are expected to do so again.
so when i read these topics in the news and see how much greenpeace and other ultra enviro-terror groups ignore the other side of the story.
Abaddon,
Not trying to antogonize at all....... but a few questions:
"I cannot understand the credulity of anyone who can believe that humans can destroy forests at the rate they've been destroyed in the past 200 years "
Do you realize that Earth's forest cover has actually grown (not retreated) in the past 200 years?
What percentage of Earths atmosphere has changed since the industrial revolution?
Do you think the Suns cyclical activity could have anything to do with warming?
How about land use?
How come Earths Average temperature have gone down during a period where CO2 concentrations have increased (1930's and 1940's) - shouldn't they have gone up globally relevant to increased CO2?
If humans were never on Earth, do you think all our glaciers would continue to melt until there are none, as has happened previous interglacial periods?
How much have Earth's overall temperatures risen since they've been recorded (1880-present) ? How much of this rise in temperature is part of the overall rise attriputed to the interglacial period we are in, and how much is due to human activity?
Have any of the climate models been close to accurate in the past 30 years they've been employed?
Just questions that have made me think about it. We do have finite resources which make an accurate assesment of Earth's environmental challenges, and the allocation of those finite resources to combat them, all the more pertinant - wouldn't you agree?
-FW
i hear a lot about the greenhouse affect, in the news and in environmental movements.
i also studied this topic when i was in college and remember seeing a lot of information on how many of these weather changes that are attributed to the greenhouse affect, have repeated themselves many times throughout history and are expected to do so again.
so when i read these topics in the news and see how much greenpeace and other ultra enviro-terror groups ignore the other side of the story.
There sure is a lot of hype around "Global Warming". That, and some surprising oddities in the data make me suspicious.
my brother in law wants to know::: if jw's don't have the truth then where do you go to worship?
if i had something better then he would follow?
i know i have heard this before from jw's but couldn't find the thread to answer him correctly.
The WTS spends so much time emphasising an organization, i.e.their organization, that people instinctively ask that question.
Ask him: "Once a child becomes an Adult, do they look for new parents when theirs die?"
Watchtower teaches dependancy.
reading through the thread about doing work for churches got me thinking about something, especially the chart on rand cam.. why does the watchtower invest in the stock market in the first place?
couldn't they use that money to build kingdom halls?
to be that heavily involved in the "world" would be prohibited--as least you would think so.
PMJ,
I will do the required research to provide you this proof, but will you first answer this:
Why? If the Society indeed has millions invested in Stocks, Bonds, etc, what would that mean or imply to you?
Thanks,
FW
hope you are all well.. if you have been following the soap-opera of my life and the letter i wrote my dad then you may be interested in the latest.. my dad has been here visiting and we had a good long talk yesterday about my letter and what has brought me to the decision to leave the org.
he listened to everything i had to say and agreed with everything i had to say.
his own doubts arose when he became an elder and got a clearer picture of the abusive tactics that are used on the sheep.
Great News Freedomlover!
Why not let him read "Crisis of Conscience"? It covers everything you mentioned and more.
-FW
