Posts by FreeWilly

35

My husband is reading about the initial fulfillment of the last days....

by cognac in

that happened in 70 ce... i guess it has 2 fulfillments.... i'm drinking a beer right now, not in the mood for this conversation... mostly i hear, bla bla bla bla bla....... he's trying to figure something out... i asked whether those scriptures had 1 or 2 fulfillments... anyone know???.

sometimes this is exhausting... .

FreeWilly

Congac,

The Society uses "Dual fulfillments" like herion. This could be helpful with your hubby. You should gather a list of "dual fulfillments" and discuss go over them using only the Bible. After a while you begin to see that the notion of dual fulfillments simply gives the Society license to teach whatever they want and contend that it originally came from the Bible.

Here is a classic example: The Tree Dream

Read the Scriptures in Daniel 4 that the Society uses to come up with 1914. It has to do with Nebuchadnezzars "Tree Dream". Daniel clearly says that this dream applied to Nebuchadnezzar and had its fulfillment then. Daniel defined every aspect of the dream. The Society however claims it has a second, hidden fulfillment that calculates to 1914 with all sorts of secret meanings. Shockingly no other bible writer after Daniel hints at such a dual meaning. Not the prophets, nor Jesus, or the Apostles. Doing a little more research you will find that the whole "Tree Dream" calculation was first postulated by Adventists writers and borrowed by Charles Russell - to the point where some accuse him of plagerism.

Read the scriptures by themselves and see if you find hints of secret meanings.

192

GOOD GOD!! WHY ARE THERE SO MANY.......????

by Terry in

jw
friends

....spelling errors on the topic headers?.

how much effort does it take to check your spelling before you post a topic??.

just read over some of the topics up for discussion right now and you'll see a very shocking (to me, at least) disregard for accuracy.. if you can't trouble yourself to get your spelling right how are the rest of us going to respect the fact you have your reasoning right either??.

FreeWilly

Here's a little fun at Terry's expense.

When I miss one I am terribly ~~embarassed~~embarrassed!
~~BOUNDRIES~~Boundaries make good neighbors. Spelling is a ~~boundry~~boundary.
This is aA gross distortion at best and merely ugly invective at worst.
Does this slovenly,slouching attitude bother anybody other than me?
You invalidate your own ~~arugment~~ argument.

Kettle meet pot?

36

My wife is attending an "Assembly"?

by Shadow1 in

jw
friends

my wife has gone to attend an "assembly" can anyone tell me what goes on at these meetings?.

-"un-believing mate" still very new to all of this.. .

shadow1.

FreeWilly

Shadow,

I sense your relationship will ultimately be confronted by a "choice". Her immersion back into the JW's will likely be subtle and tolerable until its not. Kinda like placing a frog in cool water and turning on the burner. By the time its too hot its way too late.

You are a prospective convert in both her eyes and other JW's. She will likely try to make the impact of JW's as pleasant as possible for now. However, eventually the hope of you ever converting will be lost and you will be recatagorized. You will likely have to keep your true feelings to yourself for the sake of peace. What you've already experienced when showing her critical information is a foretaste of the type of tension the religion introduces into a relationship. Compromise will most likely have to come mostly from your end. You will have to tolerate her schedule, the rules that impact her, displacing your social life with JW's, and the idea that you are essentially a worldly slacker in the eyes of her JW friends.

Some couples (JW/non JW) can pull it off OK. The non JW actually provides the JW spouse a conveinient excuse from the relentless JW schedule. For others its a constant source of tension and conflict. You are 54 - correct? I assume more kids are not in you future? If so that reduces some of the risks of this type of relationship. However don't discount time. As you know, a relationship is like two plants growing close together. You become intertwined and codependant. If seperation does come then the longer it is prolonged the more it will hurt. Something to keep in mind...

Perhaps it is wise to flesh this out before the emotional investment is too large??

36

My wife is attending an "Assembly"?

by Shadow1 in

jw
friends

my wife has gone to attend an "assembly" can anyone tell me what goes on at these meetings?.

-"un-believing mate" still very new to all of this.. .

shadow1.

FreeWilly

So is your wife new to all this too? If so, it sounds like she's taking steps to get more involved with JW's. That is nothing to take lightly. If so, do some reading here and elsewhere. Much better to act now than later when she becomes totally dependant on them. Believe me, you won't like how that turns out....

16

Ideas to help w/ Still-believing mates

by FreeWilly in

i've been reading alot of posts about spouses trying to get through to their mates still in dubville - with mixed results.

it seems to go like this: after some internal questioning the exiting mate shares what they learn with the stilladub mate.

at first the stilladub mate may be receptive and even share some of their own doubts and unresolved questions.

FreeWilly

My wife and I watched a program about the Waco incident, and I could tell it made her think a little bit

That's exactly the effect reading the Books about these Mormon sects had.

Researching Mormonism is what initially helped me "wake up". The roots of their beliefs were so whacky (to me) that I really tried to understand how anyone could truly cling to them. The exercise in critical thinking inevitably turned inward. The rest is history.

9

3/08 Awake!: Is There One True Religion?

by Watkins in

a dear old jw couple who are like an aunt and uncle to me, sent it in the mail.

the note said, in particularly to my husband, which i thought odd since he's never feigned the slightest interest, ""we thought you'd find pages 3-9 of interest, "is there one true religion".

we both feel that the decision we made (a zillion) years ago in choosing a way of worship was the correct one.

FreeWilly

So you ARE going to write back, right?

10

Service has gotten so lame...They didn't even ask why?

by FreeWilly in

jw
friends

so the dubs were working my street this weekend.

unfortunately i got home just after they visited my house.

so i see a couple working a few houses down.

FreeWilly

So the Dubs were working my street this weekend. Unfortunately I got home just after they visited my house. So I see a couple working a few houses down. I decided to take my dog for a walk past them and casually request that they not call on my house. I made sure not to sound mean, I asked please and was quite pleasant about it. I was hoping they would at least ask why.....but no. They simply said " Uhh, OK." So a few minutes later another couple of men were on the opposite end of the block. This time I was super docile saying "Sorry, I don't mean to be insulting or anything, but we'd prefer if you didn't call on our house - is that OK?." They replied, "Uh, sure, we don't want to disturb anyone." I said "Oh No, you're not disturbing us, we just had a bad experience." Surely this would prompt at least a follow-up question i.e. why?! But no, they simply said "OK sorry about that." So lame.

I swear, JW's must pass out literature just so they can log hours in FS.

29

Any suggestions on the best way to handle tonight?

by myababes in

jw
friends

we have not been in the org for over 10 years now but still see the old jw's around and about.

one particular couple we used to be fairly friendly with we bumped into the other night as they are doing a course at the college my hubby lectures at.

they were never the strongest of couples but have kept going cos of their family i suppose.

FreeWilly

I've been here before. This works well....

Act Reluctant

Let them do the inquiring. When they do, be reluctant to go into detail. Here are some operative phrases:
"We don't want to influence anyone, but as for us, we've learned a few things that we find bothersome."
"I think we know why the Society is paranoid of outside information."
"We don't want to get anyone in trouble with the Society. We know they don't tolerate any critics."

Be uncommitted, concerned yet inquisitive

"We want to make sure we are believing for the right reasons"
"We don't want to take our faith for granted. We know people are capable of being convinced of all sorts of religious ideas."

Sow the seeds of research

"Witnesses are some of the best people we know. But we find ourselves asking if the Truth is simply good people doing the best they can OR is Jehovah in charge."
"We have a hard time beleiving Jehovah has been behind some of the things that have happened over the years."

Don't make statements, ask leading questions

"Have you guys heard about any of the Court settlements?" (regarding JW pedophiles)
"Do you ever think that maybe the Society's version of the "Truth" comes from men?"
"Do you ever think that "New Light" is really just code for human imperfection?"

9

Me un-dying was just for Satan to trick me in thinking that God heals?

by A-Team in

i'm sorry, but this has kinda pissed me off.

backgound: .

i was a high risk sids baby who was infact dead at 4 months old.

FreeWilly

"Medical Records....

So you are saying you have medical records showing yourself pronounced dead by medical personnel? If so then what you are claiming is that you were declared legally and medically dead.

From Wikipedia: Brain death is a legal definition of death that emerged in the 1960s as a response to the ability to resuscitate individuals and mechanically keep the heart and lungs working. In simple terms, brain death is the irreversible end of all brain activity. A brain-dead individual has no clinical evidence of brain function upon physical examination. This includes no response to pain and no cranial nervereflexes. Reflexes include pupillary response (fixed pupils), oculocephalic reflex, corneal reflex, no response to the caloric reflex test and no spontaneous respirations.
From Howstuffworks.com:Confirming Brain DeathMany physicians request additional, confirmatory tests before pronouncing brain death. The two most common are the electroencephalogram (EEG) and the cerebral blood flow (CBF) study. The EEG measures brain voltage in microvolts. It is so sensitive that the static electricity in a person's clothes will give a squiggle on the EEG (a false positive). All positive responses suggest brain function. The patient in the deepest coma will show some EEG electroactivity, while the brain-dead patient will not.

So, just to be clear, you are claiming that you have medical records that provide proof that you were declared dead by a Physician according to the legal and medical definition of death to which they must abide?

"and a newspaper article on SIDS babies. "

Can you provide a link or reproduce the article?

Even if you don't believe that...

What I believe is not important. It's whether or not a supernatural claim has evidence to substantiate it. Without that then essentially you are asking readers to take your word for it. If you do make an exceedingly bold claim without equally bold evidence than people are likely to associate the claim with all the other wild unsubstantiated claims floating around in the world today. You really can't blame people for behaving like this. Skepticism is healthy. For example, if there was no supernatural intervention with the broken bone in your foot, do you think you own biological processes would have healed the fracture? Secondly, Why would a broken foot bone require surgery as you claim?

You can't ask people to just glibbly accept a supernatural claim. Especially when, to date, all such claims have either involved a real world mechanism, lack credible evidence or are unrepeatable.

9

Me un-dying was just for Satan to trick me in thinking that God heals?

by A-Team in

i'm sorry, but this has kinda pissed me off.

backgound: .

i was a high risk sids baby who was infact dead at 4 months old.

FreeWilly

Well, I don't want to piss you off, but when I hear your claims I'm very skeptical. For example, if you were a 4 month old, what makes you think you were actually dead? You were too young to remember so what makes you claim this? Do any of your medical records support this claim?

Can any of your supernatural experiences be verified through secondary sources such as medical professionals?

Can they be duplicated?

I ask because I've never seen a supernatural claim substantiated.