Posts by FreeWilly

132

Why does God need to be worshiped?

by Scully in

just curious about this question today and wondered if anyone else has pondered this.. is worship meant to be a reverent show of appreciation for life that god imparts to individuals?

if that's the case, and someone - by the mere accident of their birth - has a truly crappy life, why should these people worship god or show him "appreciation" for their unfortunate circumstances?

why should anyone who endures hardships worship god, particularly if they have been worshiping god and then all of a sudden a heap of trouble just plops into their lives, unannounced and unwelcome??.

Do born-agains dominate EX-JW's?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

do a quick look on the web and you will find most ex-jw or anti-jw sites are made by so called born again christians.

i remember from being a witness that the general view of apostaes was that they had become born again christians.this was probably because so many actually do.

is this having a negative effect or reducing the chances of witness reading information that may help them?

FreeWilly

I always had the impression most here were agnostic - like me.

65

Questions

by 2evil in

jw
friends

ok, this is my first post.

i'm 30 years old.

raised in "the truth" my whole life.

FreeWilly

Hi 2 evil,

A couple of things I think you should think about:

Holy Spirit

When Jesus was on Earth he performed miracles as did the Apostles and others.This proved God's power, through the H.S. , was backing them. Do JW's feel that the H.S. is not now operative anymore? NO! they believe that the power of the H.S. - the same H.S. that raised people from the dead - is just operating differently now. JW's, or more accurately, the Society, believes that the H.S. is evident by the "powerful truths" that are being declared by his organization. So instead of people being able to witness miracles like ressurections, healings, etc, humans now should be able to see an equally compelling unmistakable display of Jehovah's power to PROVE that Jah is behind them.

You need to ask yourself if this has been the case? Think about it. You may already know all of the doctrinal blunders of the recent history of the Society. Pyramids, Miracle Wheat, forbidding vaccines, forbidding organ transplants, the elusive "King of the North", the missing "Generation", Armageddon in 1914, 1925, 1941 and on and on and on.

You should really ask yourself who is directing the "spiritual food" coming from the Society? Is it the unmistakable power of the Jehovah through Holy Spirit..... or is it from the minds of Men?

Think about it. Supposedly all of mankind will be executed because the did not recognize this source of truth (i.e. the Society). If you were Jehovah would you leave nearly all of humanity vulnerable to such a flippant, contradictory and ultimately UNREALIABLE source of doctrinal information? Can you really blame someone for concluding that the Society is not a reliable source?

Billions will supposedly die over this. Does that make sense?

162

If its good, God did it... if its bad Satan did it....

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

.

i've read the bible and i don't recall satan himself actually ever doing anything evil or harmful... however i read many accounts where god killed or tormented countless thousands of people for arbitrary reasons.. aside from prophecies where jehover says that satan will hurt people in the future (hasn't happened yet, and no sign that it will happen), can anyone cite an example in the bible where satan actually harmed anyone?.

FreeWilly

As if this hasn't been beat to death already......

God refuses to communicate with humans, YET allows Satan to speak, posses, trick and tempt people regularly.

God has 'myriads' of Angels at his disposal, but for some unknown reason, prevents them from interracting or intervening for the good of mankind YET Satan gets to unleash the demons.

God is the grandest mack-daddy killer of all time with one global genocide, multiple regional genocides and numerous murder spree's under his belt. Almost every one of these blood fests were with people who he made no effort to change or inform. Heck the people of Noah's day hadn't even broken one of his laws! But stay tuned, he's going for the record at Armageddon - the biggest whack-down of them all! And the best part is the supposed reason (the Issue of Soveriegnty or varients thereof) isn't even in the Bible! Nope, none of the writers even offer this as an explaination for upcoming slaughter .

Would any parent treat his/her children this way?

I think it's fiction. Like every other sacred religious text, it contains tales of places far, far away, a long, long time ago, with magical powers and mythical beings that for some strange reason cannot be found ANYWHERE today. Hmmm, what a coincidence. Can you think of a Religious belief system that DOESN'T follow this same manufactured plot?

I think it's odd that we can so easily dismiss the validity of other religious tales, yet whole heartedly embrace this one simply because it is one we've been accostomed to since childhood. That's how all religious adherents behave.

26

The Passion of the Christ questions (Spoilers within)

by recoveringjw in

jw
friends

spoilers?

for anybody who knows the story of jesus, it should be like watching titanic---the ship sinks, get over it.

spouse: "nobody in the movie saw the hooded creature.

FreeWilly

I just saw The Passion just last night. The thin hooded evil figure I'm almost certain is supposed to be Satan. In the beginning he is the one who entices Jesus to give up. He's the one who releases a snake that slithers over near Jesus. Jesus gets up and "crushes the serpents head" with his heal (sound familiar?). Also at the end it looks as if he is in hell and is angered by Jesus loyalty to the point of death, which ultimately means defeat for Satan. I actually thought the Satan character was one of the few, well portrayed characters in the movie (minus the midget baby scene, WTF was that?).

All in all I thought the movie was terribly done. Every scene has Jesus whimpering and gasping in unbearable agony only to be followed by more gasping and agony. I totally get that Jesus had to undergo humiliation and punishment from both Jewish and Roman sources, but it seems like the producer felt obligated to portray Jesus as having suffered like no other before or after him. Many people have endure similar and even worse fates at the hands of their tormentors. After all, the torture devices used for Jesus were not invented just for him. The Bible account does not indicate superhuman suffering throughout. In fact it shows he had a presence of mind to make insightful rebuts to his accusers. The movie seems greatly embellished and way too melodramatic. Did you see how many of the common people were portrayed like some freak circus performers? It reminded me of an amateur Renaissance fair full of carnival characters intend on overacting their parts. Yes I too feel the umpteen falls were excessively dramatic. I also though the 'fountain' that spewed from Jesus side when he was stabbed in the ribs was ludicrous! Did they borrow that from 'Saturday Night Live' or what ?

The whole thing lacked realism to me. It was like a second rate reproduction of Hamlet. I surprised it received all of the praise that it did.

That was just my take on it.

56

JW SINGLES site shut down due to GUILT!

by Survivor2004 in

jw
friends

hi folks.. i have been lurking on and off for about 2 years now and before i did post a couple threads under my old alias but it wont accept it for some reason so i had to re-join.. anyway there was a singles site called jwsingles.net by a nice fellow who wanted to help other lonely jw single folks meet but he is about to shut it down despite some success stories which i guess makes the elders upset.. i had joined two years ago and was on the mailing list(i,ve been inactive for about 5 years now)thats the short version,anyway,i got this e-mail from him the other day and it really infuriated me because he did nothing wrong but again the organization wants to control every aspect of their lives,including not letting jw,s put up harmless websites for singles to meet.after all in many many congregations there is a severe shortage of available singles right?and,if they dont even want you to look for a mate in their own organization (on the net) then they will look outside of the organization but i guess they are too dense to understand that.. his letter wreaks of guilt and he hangs his head in shame at congregations.i fail to see how he has stumbled others here.its none of others business what adult jw,s want to meet someone.. i understand the heartache of being all alone for many many years with no one and no suitable mates there as they were too stuffy and i felt like i could never match up no matter how hard i tried.i shed too many tears to count as im sure many here have as well.. anyway here is the e-mail.. greetings friends.. this will most likely be the last message you recieve from jw singles.net.. the site has been running for several years now with its main goal to help those of like faith find and if they wish contact each other.we,ve met that goal with several success stories.im very glad to say that an old friend of mine from a congregation in maryland met a wonderful sister from california.after months of phone calls and trips and bible studies over the phone,they were married.both are extremely happy with their new mates.. there are other stories the friends have shared when asking to have their profiles removed.. however i cannot continue to justify the site against the councel of the wbt society.i am tired of sinking in my seat at assemblies and conventions when they mention websites to avoid.it is also not my place to second guess the faithful and discreet salve and the connection they have with jehovahs spirit in guiding the organization in these last days.while i believe that with proper theocratic guidelines this site can be used ,like many have demonstrated to a good cause,i will not possibly stumble my brothers and sisters.. i have thought of selling the site to help recoup the expenses i incurred while developing and running the site ,but again i dont want the responsibility of passing it off to someone else,possibly a wordly company or person.. after the last paying members subscription has run out,i will open the full site with access to every member .this will be the last chance to try and contact some of the 2000 members we have.right now im targeting september as the final month the site will run.our information on the site will be deleted as the database of users is erased.if you care to make a donation of any size while the site is still open to everyone our paypal address is _________ or contact me for a mailing address.. thanks to all those who have tried to help and build the idea i had into a functioning and useful program.i wish you all well and continued strenght in this time of the end.all of the friends are tired and are struggling just to make it to meetings instead of staying home with a headache or working a little late.be upbuilding to each other ,help to show love amongst ourselves and continue to walk with god until the end.. agape.

brian.

jw singles.net'.

FreeWilly

Survivor, You have a message!

40

do you believe only the jw's will be saved? from official wtbs website.

by candidlynuts in

do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not jehovah's witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life.

many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before god's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation.

FreeWilly

I have another scenario,

If Frodo never dropped the ring into the cauldren would the Eye of Sauron have destroyed all humans and thereby cancelling Armageddon?

Oh... wait a second. I think I'm getting my fantasy worlds mixed up again.

40

do you believe only the jw's will be saved? from official wtbs website.

by candidlynuts in

do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not jehovah's witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life.

many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before god's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation.

FreeWilly

GDT,

GDT: One can only say that with all the cynicism, and condemnation, is it not time that you accept that the organization is saying to this question' NO, It is not up to us to judge'. If it is a 'correction' from previous;y stronger expressions, why not say 'fair enough' or is that too much to ask? gdt

Most of us here know full well the official position on Salvation. Only those affiliated with the Watchtower Society have a hope of Salvation during Armageddon. AFTER Armageddon the belief is that the "ressurection of the righteous and unrighteous" will include those who have died before Armageddon regardless of their righteousness. So the Society's answer is shifty and misleading. Most people ask this question with Armageddon in mind. In other words people wonder if JW's teach that they ALONE are considered righteous and worthy of salvation at Armageddon in God's eyes. When the WTS answers "NO" instead of "YES", they can only do so by shifting the focus to the resurrection. The question "Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only one's who will be saved at Armageddon " is one the Society (and many JW's) will likely avoid answering directly. The reason is their literature and teaching clearly indicates that they beleive they are the only people worthy of salvation at Armageddon. Yet, publically they are reluctant to admit it. Examples:

The Watchtower, September 1, 1989, p. 19: "Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium": Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. From The Watchtower, August 15, 1953, pp. 500-1: "For anyone to forsake the organized congregation of those who are destined to survive Armageddon means for that one never to get past Armageddon into the New World and its theocratic system. Like Noah's family, we must now get into the ark all together!" The Watchtower, April 1, 1982, pp. 30-1 "The only ones to whom the Bible extends hope of surviving the "great tribulation" are Christ's "brothers," or "chosen ones," and the "great crowd" of "sheep".

It's not a matter of softening. You will find no recent articles retracting a former stance. The issue GDT, is the fact that the WTS teaches that, of all humanity alive on Earth today, ONLY those of the JW religion are worthy of salvation at Armageddon. Realizing how bold this claim may appear to the 6 BILLION outsiders, they water it down and shift the focus to the much more appealing resurrection scenario. It's not a matter of "taking the Society's word on it" their 'word' is disengenious and misleading. We are simply pointing out the inconsistancy. Are you suggesting that the WTS teaches that it MAY NOT BE NECESSARY to be affiliated with the JW religion to survive Armageddon? Does the WTS teach Muslims may have an opportunity for salvation at Armageddon? Catholics? Protestants? Hindu? Buddists? Agnostics? Atheists? From my conversations with JW's most are not comfortable with the official teaching. Many leave room for additional survivors at Armageddon, since many have friends and family that would otherwise be slaughtered. When the research the Society's position though, they find no such comfort.

83

We finally saw Fahrenheit 9/11

by Mulan in

dave got home early on wednesday so we hustled off to the afternoon showing.

(cheaper seats).

it was amazing...................very compelling, and thought provoking.. one of the most upsetting things was towards the end when he revealed that of all 96 (not sure of that number) members of congress (senate and house) only 1 member had a child in the military, actively serving.

FreeWilly

From what I can tell his message is that he hates America...or am I missing something.

His message in 911 is that there's no good reason for being in Iraq, and that Bush is an idiot. I agree with both points. We have gone from a country attacked by terroists with the entire worlds support to one that is now held in deep suspicion by all, with a phoney excuse for agression coupled with outright falsehoods from its most trusted agencies. Bush has put America's credibility in the toilet and is well on his way to creating his very own Vietnam. And yes we are now breeding a whole new class of terrorists whose cause many more admire.

The whole "war on Terror" depends on cooperation from other countries. What the hell did Iraq have to do with the terrorists ? Please don't cite that weak and tenuous Al Queda connections touted by the White house. These are the same people who swore to the world that Iraq had WMD.

83

We finally saw Fahrenheit 9/11

by Mulan in

dave got home early on wednesday so we hustled off to the afternoon showing.

(cheaper seats).

it was amazing...................very compelling, and thought provoking.. one of the most upsetting things was towards the end when he revealed that of all 96 (not sure of that number) members of congress (senate and house) only 1 member had a child in the military, actively serving.

FreeWilly

One of the clever editing segments Moore does is when he approaches a Senator and asks if he would sign a petition to get all Senators to enlist their kids. What Moore cuts is the response where the Senator actually agrees and the Senator mentioning that he has 2 Nephews in Iraq and 1 in Afganistan. Instead Moore concludes the segment saying NO Senators want their kids in Iraq and only 1 has children over there.

Anyway, its too bad Moore did so much deceptive editing. I think aside from that his message is right on the mark.