The Gospel of John is an excellent example of a text that is in a state of mess. There is the interpolation in John 7:53-8:11 which nearly all agree is a later addition, the addition of John 21 which was also not original to the text but which occurs in all manuscripts, the redactional passages in John 6:51b-59 which alters the meaning of the "hard saying," the redactional additions of John 5:27b-29; 6:39b, 40b, 44b, the sequence of pericopes in John 4-7 has been mixed up (with an original order of chapters 4, 6, 5, 7), John 15-16 which originally followed John 13:34-35 but was relocated to after ch. 14, and John 17 doesn't fit well with either order and was possibly added after the displacement of John 15-16 had already occurred. Mark also has been tampered with a lot, as our canonical Mark is an abridgement of Secret Mark, which in turn was an expansion of original Mark (which was the version known to the authors of Matthew and Luke), so that the excision of Secret Mark passages has led to strange lacunae such as that found in Mark 10:46, and then there is the strange ending in Mark 16:8 which cuts off in mid-sentence as if the original ending was lost and the addition of Mark 16:9-20 by a later redactor (Ariston, according to the Armenian manucript; possibly Aristion the Presbyter?).
Leolaia
JoinedPosts by Leolaia
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Manuscript varients betray deliberate altertion of NT
by peacefulpete innon-roman fonts used: spionic .
this article is also available in transliteration and text-only formats.
editor's note: bart ehrman delivered the kenneth w. clark lectures at duke divinity school in 1997. this article, though slightly modified from the oral presentation, preserves the original flavor of the lecture.
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It was the food that did it!
by onacruse inah, to finally know why we die, it makes so much sense!
(bold added)
(1925) the way to paradise pp.
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Leolaia
Was Rutherford aware of a Jewish myth expounding upon the Adam story? It would certainly make sense as the entirety of jewish mythology was of "Pagan" originality.
I think this is a little overstated. Certainly there was a lot of indigenous Israelite input into Jewish mythology (i.e. the angelology of post-exilic Judiasm building on Canaanite-Israelite beliefs about the seventy sons of El and Asherah), unless that gets counted as "pagan" as well. And I would not regard everything else as simply borrrowings from mythologies outside Israel -- I would give the Jews credit for a certain amount of internal development as well.
As for the Rutherfordian doctrine about "perfect food" that sustains eternal life, this is probably derivative of Genesis 3:22 which links the eating of the "tree of life" with "living forever". Similarly, the lifting of the ban on eating the fruit of the tree of life (Revelation 22:2-3) is associated in the messianic Jerusalem where "there will be no more death" (21:4). The concept in Genesis is most reminiscent of the plant of immortality that a serpent steals from Gilgamesh that had sustained Utnapishtim's immortality. The tree of life and the garden of Eden are closely linked in general Semitic notions of the Temple as divine garden with a divine sacred tree (cf. Hatshepsut describing her temple as a "Garden to Amun," the sacred palm in the sanctuary of Ea in Eridu; cf. also the Israelite Temple, its menorah, and sacred waters, and also the asherim in Exodus 25:31-40; Deuteronomy 12:2; 1 Kings 7:49, 16:33; Ezekiel 45-47; Jubilees 3:19; Revelation 22:1-4, the river Gihon in Genesis 2:13 as the Jerusalem spring, etc), but it is not clear whether Israel in its conceptions of the Temple and Eden draws on the traditions of their neighbors or develops an indigenous concept common to Semitic peoples. It is interesting that 1 Kings credits the Phoenicians as building the Jerusalem Temple and the possible connections between the Eden story with Phoenicia (such as the name Hawwah, which is not Hebrew but Syrian-Aramaic for "serpent", and the depictions of serpent and tree in Phoenician art; see also Psalm 29 which shows a Phoenician Baalist provenance but and which concerns the Temple).
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The Rainbow and the Flood?
by Blueblades inthere is evidence that the flood of noah's day was local.why then does the account mention that the rainbow is a visible sign from jehovah,a covenant promise that no more would "all flesh" be cut off by waters of a deluge,and no more would there occur a deluge to bring the earth ( land ) to ruin.
( genesis 9:11 - 16 ).. some commentators say that the rainbow had been seen before this and that the flood was only local.that being the case and from all the evidence presented here and on the internet,i believe that it was a local flood.
.why then this rainbow covenant,that never again would man be cut off and the earth, ( land ) be brought to ruin,when we see so much local flooding around the world and man being cut off and the land being ruined today?.
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Leolaia
Runningman....You know, that was viewed as a problem in post-exilic Judaism, troubled as they were that the flood killed animal life as well as people. What did the animals ever do wrong? So they solved the problem by saying: THE ANIMALS SINNED TOO!
"And lawlessness increased on the earth and all flesh corrupted its way, alike men and cattle and beasts and birds and everything that walks the earth -- all of them corrupted their ways and their orders....And afterwards they sinned against beasts and birds and everything that moves or walks upon the earth." (Jubilees 5:2, 7:24)
"These giants consumed the produce of all the people until the people detested feeding them. So the giants turned against the people in order to eat them. And they began to sin with birds, wild beasts, reptiles, and fish. And their flesh was devoured the one by the other, and they drank blood. And then the earth brought an accusation against the oppressors." (1 Enoch 7:3-6)
"The generation of Noah was plunged into wantoness and used to have sexual relations with those who were not of their kind....And even the animals were so corrupted with those not of their species, horse with donkey and donkey with horse and snake with bird, as it says, 'For all flesh has gone astrary...' [Genesis 6:12]. It does not say 'all humans' but 'all flesh,' therefore he destroyed all of creation which was on the face of the earth, from man to beast." (Midrash Tanhuma, Noah 12)
I won't ask the question of why animals drink blood today and that hasn't brought judgment on the earth.
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Watchtower Captions
by Stephanus ina typical 'tower cover depicting a before and after shot of "da good life", watchtower style:.
with the text (rather sloppily, i'm afraid) editted out:.
and some contributions by me (towards the worldwide work, natch!):.
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Simon, Cephas, Peter, Judas, Thomas, Didymus
by Leolaia inthis post is in response to peacefulpete's interesting post from my king david thread, which i quote below: .
leolaia...if you look again at 1cor you'll see peter is not there only an ebionite named cephas is.
the only reference to "peter" in any of "pauline" works is gal 2:7 and it is an interpolation made for the very reasons being discussed.
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Leolaia
Here's another parallel between the two stories. Compare the beginning of the Secret Mark resurrection story with Mark's Bethany annointing story:
"And they came into Bethany. And a certain woman whose brother had died was there. And, coming, she prostrated herself before Jesus and says to him, 'Son of David, have mercy on me.' But the disciples rebuked her. And Jesus, being angered, went off with her into the garden where the tomb was." (Secret Mark 10:34:1-2)
"And when he was in Bethany at the home of Simon the leper, and reclining at the table, there came a woman with an alabaster vial of very costly perfume of pure nard; and she broke the vial and poured it over his head. But some were indignantly remarking to one another, 'Why has this perfume been wasted? For this perfume might have been sold for over three hundred denarii, and the money given to the poor.' And they were scolding her. But Jesus said, 'Let her alone; why do you bother her? She has done a good deed to me.'...And Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve, went off to the chief priests, in order to betray him to them." (Mark 14:1-6, 10)
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Simon, Cephas, Peter, Judas, Thomas, Didymus
by Leolaia inthis post is in response to peacefulpete's interesting post from my king david thread, which i quote below: .
leolaia...if you look again at 1cor you'll see peter is not there only an ebionite named cephas is.
the only reference to "peter" in any of "pauline" works is gal 2:7 and it is an interpolation made for the very reasons being discussed.
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Leolaia
Whoa, that just made me realize another weird thing about this Lazarus guy from John 11. As I pointed out in an earlier post, Secret Mark attests the same resurrection story which reveals the Lazarus figure as the rich young man from Mark 10:17-22. The plot of this story resembles the Parable of the Rich Fool (Luke 12:13-21; Gospel of Thomas 63:1), and there are several connections as well to the Parable of Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31): (1) The name Lazarus, (2) A rich man that died, (3) Mention of linen, (4) Mention of resurrection of the rich man. Well, there may be another tantalizing connection. The Bethany annointing story you mention (John 12:1-11) follows right after the Lazarus miracle in John 11, and the people mentioned at the scene include Mary, Martha, and Lazarus -- "and Lazarus was among those reclining at the table (anakeimenon)" (John 12:2). Now when we look at the parallel story in Mark 14:3-9, we find an unnamed woman and Simon the leper, who was "reclining at the table (katakeimenou)" (Mark 14:3). This parallel makes it less probable that the Lazarus mention was not original to the story. But more interestingly, here we have a story about a meal which is paralleled in the Rich Man and Lazarus parable, which refers to Lazarus as eating the "crumbs falling from the rich man's table" (Luke 16:21). And the connection between Simon the leper and Lazarus the rich man, explicit in both being described as "reclining at the table," certainly recalls the rich man and the leperous Lazarus who was "covered with sores" (heilkomenos). The Greek word helkos "sore" is used in Leviticus 13:18-23 (LXX) to refer to leprosy: "It is a case of leprosy (lepra) that has broken out in a sore (helkei)." This is getting real interesting; the more I look at the two Lazarus stories, the more they seem to have something to do with each other, but in a complex and unpredictable way.
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It was the food that did it!
by onacruse inah, to finally know why we die, it makes so much sense!
(bold added)
(1925) the way to paradise pp.
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Leolaia
I got something earlier for ya. From Rutherford's best seller Millions Now Living Will Never Die [1920] (pp. 99-100):
When God expelled Adam from Eden he said: "And now, lest he [Adam] put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, . . . and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life". (Genesis 3:22-24) Thus the Word shows that had Adam remained in Eden, feeding upon the perfect food it afforded, he would have continued to live. The judgment was executed against him by causing him to feed upon imperfect food. Perfect food, therefore, seems a necessary element to sustain human life everlastingly. When the kingdom of Messiah is inaugurated, the great Messiah will make provision for right food conditions. Thus, when restoration begins, a man of seventy years of age will gradually be restored to a condition of physical health and mental balance. The Lord will teach him how to eat, what to eat, and other habits of life.
I gotta be taught how to eat too???
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It was the food that did it!
by onacruse inah, to finally know why we die, it makes so much sense!
(bold added)
(1925) the way to paradise pp.
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Leolaia
This is interesting. The doctrine you described above is still being taught by an ex-JW sect called God's Kingdom Society. Their statement of doctrine has this to say:
Because of sin man lost the privilege of enjoying the Edenic conditions God made for him. He started subsisting on imperfect food and became subject to continuous degeneration and ultimately to death. (Romans 6:23). Thus Adam died within God?s one "day" - which is about a thousand years - (Adam lived 930 years) - Genesis 5:5; Psalm 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8.
http://www.gksmountain.org/doctrines.htm
The group says they were founded in 1934 in Lagos, Nigeria by Saint Gideon Meriodere Urhobo. No mention at all is made of a connection to JWs. But if you read their history and doctrine it has Rutherford-era WTBTS written all over it.
"Urhobo organised into a group of Bible students." "the ten doctrines symbolized in the Holy Bible as ten strings in the harp of God". "God gave the Devil a suspended death sentence the execution of which will take place at the expiration of the time given him to prove his boast that no man would remain faithful to God." "And that only the 144,000 chosen and anointed Christians". Physical facts in fulfillment of the Bible prophecies clearly proves that Christ?s second coming took place in the year 1914 when God?s Kingdom or perfect government was set up in the heavens after the casting out of Satan and all his wicked angels (the demons) down to the earth." "Jehovah will use during his second presence." "After the gospel had been preached round the world as a witness to all nations, Jesus Christ will destroy satan and his hosts in the Battle of Armageddon." "By the grace of God, a great multitude will pass through or survive the battle of Armageddon and live forever." "These "ancient worthies" will also be the representatives of God on earth as rulers." "The GKS therefore is a part and parcel of God?s universal organization." "become a mighty Christian Organisation" "the GKS hymnbook - Theocratic Songs of Praise (TSP). "proven by God?s Kingdom Society from the Holy Bible, biblical chronology." "Paradise house (kingdom hall)." The first resurrection belongs to Jesus Christ and his body members, the apostles numbering 144,000 who will be changed into immortal spirit beings and taken to heaven - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Timothy 4:6-8; 1 John 3:2; Philippians 3:21; Revelation 14:1. Better resurrection is for the ancient worthies, from Abel to John Baptist who distinguished themselves by their works of faith. These will be the earthly representatives of the heavenly kingdom and will rule as princes in all the earth."
It's so weird to think that today in the 21st century, Rutherfordian doctrine is still being taught!!
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Manuscript varients betray deliberate altertion of NT
by peacefulpete innon-roman fonts used: spionic .
this article is also available in transliteration and text-only formats.
editor's note: bart ehrman delivered the kenneth w. clark lectures at duke divinity school in 1997. this article, though slightly modified from the oral presentation, preserves the original flavor of the lecture.
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Leolaia
Thank you for posting this, Pete. One big question I have is how likely it is that any futher manuscripts or papyri are still waiting to be discovered -- especially major texts. Most of the codexes and long manuscripts were found in monastaries, but have we pretty much exhausted that as a resource and catalogued eveything there is? Or are there more monasteries out there? And has archaeology been so thorough in the twentieth century to exhaust that as well or might there still be major manuscript caches waiting to be discovered?
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Simon, Cephas, Peter, Judas, Thomas, Didymus
by Leolaia inthis post is in response to peacefulpete's interesting post from my king david thread, which i quote below: .
leolaia...if you look again at 1cor you'll see peter is not there only an ebionite named cephas is.
the only reference to "peter" in any of "pauline" works is gal 2:7 and it is an interpolation made for the very reasons being discussed.
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Leolaia
Narkissos.....Matthew 26:8 has a direct question beginning with a preposition, eis ti "to what", but what I was pointing out was that in the case of eph' ho "on what" the word translated "what" is not an interrogative like ti but a relative marker. See Luke 5:25: "And at once he rose up before them, and took up what (eph' ho "on what") he had been lying on." A relative marker usually heads a relative clause that is embedded within a main clause but there is no verb that could serve as the predicate of this main clause. So either the verb (like the "do" that has been postulated) dropped out of the text, or Matthew is using some sort of idiom, like as a question which has been postulated.
I just did some online research and I found this item (http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/html4/2001-08/6929.html) which seems to refer to the same thing I had read earlier from one of my sources:
9B: NT philology overwhelmingly rejects the proposition that hOS is used in direct questions (Mlt. 93; Bl-D. ยง300, 2; Radermacher2 78; PMaas [see 2b above]). An unambiguous example of it is yet to be found. Even the inscr. on a goblet in Dssm., LO 100ff [LAE 125-31], ET 33, ?22, 491-3 leaves room for doubt. For this reason the translation of hETAIRE, EF' hO PAREI Mt 26:50 as ?what are you here for?? (so Gdspd., Probs. 41-43; similarly, as early as Luther, later Dssm.; JPWilson, ET 41, ?30, 334) is scarcely tenable.-Rob. 725 doubts the interrogative here, but Moulton-Turner, Syntax ?63, p. 50 inclines toward it."
The source is given as The Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. I don't think this is the book I saw but rather a commentary or article that made reference to the same claim. Dr. Carl W. Conrad, from the Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus), also says this about the verse in question (http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/html4/2001-08/6930.html):
While I can understand your reluctance to take the leap and supply POIEI (or POIHSON?), I really think this is the only viable alternative among those you list. There is, of course, no parallel in Mark or Luke--and I don't know of any exact parallel in extra-biblical literature, although this is mightily like some bits of half-line stichomythia in Greek tragedy and comedy and just a little bit like some rather elliptical proverbial statements such as MH PAR' hO GEGRAPTAI. That is to say, we recognize the ellipsis as such and supply what makes sense. Here it seems to me that the only thing that makes sense is to understand the phrase, as "My friend, you came here for a purpose, go right ahead and get it done."
It occurs to me that there's yet another way to fill the ellipsis, by understanding a TOUT' ESTIN, i.e. TOUT' ESTIN EF' hO PAREI. That is to say, the actual words cited are "what you came for" with the implicit sense: "Yes, that's what you came for."
I found this sentence in my interlinear Bible: poieson ho soi legomen [do what-rel. you we-tell] "do what we tell you" (Acts 21:23), where the relative ho embeds a relative clause in a poieson/poiei predicate. Examples of questions of the "what are you here for" type include: ti su entantha elion "what are you doing here" (1 Kings 19:9; LXX), ti poieis entantha "what are you doing in this place" (Judges 18:3; LXX), ti soi estin hode "why are you here" (Judges 18:3; LXX), ti su hode "why are you here" (Isaiah 22:16; LXX). Another interesting thing is the vocative hetiare "friend". In all the NT, hetairos "friend, compansion" occurs only in Matthew, and only in the vocative. It appears only in Matthew 20:13, 22:12, and 26:50. The more typical word for "friend" is philos. Now two things are interesting about this. One is that the other two uses of the word occur in negative contexts: in 20:13 the handowner says it to the laborers who had just grumbled and complained to him. In 22:12 the king says it to a wedding guest who wasn't dressed properly and who he then threw him out into the dark "where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Second, since much of the Judas story comes from 2 Samuel 15-17, I checked that text in the LXX to see if the relatively rare word hetairos occurs there, and indeed it does, in 2 Samuel 15:32, 37; 16:16, 17. This was unexpected because it is rare in the entire OT, occurring just 4 times in Proverbs, 3 times in Judges, twice in 1 Kings, a handful of other times, and absent in Genesis, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Esther, Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc. Yet it occurs 5 times within 3 chapters of 2 Samuel, the same passage that directly influenced the Judas story.
