Posts by Leolaia

5

dolphin skins?

by peacefulpete in

we've touched on a lot of similarities between the yhwh and el/baal cults in recent threads, the parallels and connections are very abundant.

i was just rereading a book that discussed another surprising one.

in leolaia's recent thread about holy mountains we learned how the near eastern gods were frequently portrayed as housing on a mountain from which water issued.

I think we might be missing out on something here. If we are talking about an idealization, as the Solomonic temple described in 1 Kings surely was, might the tchs refer to a creature from the mythic world? According to Shabbat 28b, the tchs of the tabernacle was a unicorn that lived only during the time of Moses for his use in constructing the tabernacle "and then it was hidden away". The animal was described as multi-hued, a notion suggested by the references to colored skins and also by the LXX rendering of the word tchs as "hyacinth-colored". The big question is whether this is fanciful late interpretation of an obscure word, or whether it preserves genuine fragments of the original tradition. Note that the same tradition draws on the prevalent notion of the tabernacle as copied from heaven and a likeness of Paradise and/or the heavenly world (cf. Sirach 45:6-13, 50:5-11; Wisdom 9:8, 18:24; Letter of Aristeas 96, 99; Philo, Special Laws 1:84, Moses 2:117; Josephus, Antiquities 3:180; 2 Baruch 4:3-5; Hebrews 8:5; j. Berakot 4:5; Genesis Rabba 69:7), so it would follow that the tchs are beings of the divine world. Against this view, however, is the fact that tchs is simply used to refer to a kind of leather in Ezekiel 16:10 that was used in footwear, and the term itself occurs in Egyptian as t-3-H-s and refers to a special kind of leather. So it is possible that the word is just a loan from Egyptian and just refers to a kind of leather or hide, and not referring to a type of animal.

20

Canaanite legend quoted in 2 Samuel 1:21?

by Leolaia in

the legend of aqhat, one of the great epic myths preserved in the ugaritic archive at ras shamra, was popular in some form in israel and judah and shows its traces in the ot and later jewish literature.

ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3 makes several passing references to the legend and its hero, an ancient semi-divine king named danel renowned for his wisdom and healing powers.

danel was one of the rephaim, a primeval race of demigod kings who linger on as spirits in sheol and who were revered by the canaanites in ancestor worship (cf.

Leolaia

Back to the Aqhat legend, I was looking today at the OT to see if there were other traces aside from the verbatim resemblances in the 2 Samuel and the direct allusions in Ezekiel. I found three possible candidates: the Elisha Cycle in 2 Kings, Job, and some of the Messianic material in Isaiah. There are other things as well. The motif of a faithful man lacking a son and heir is familiar from the Abraham Cycle of Genesis. The motif of a seven-year drought is familar as well from Genesis in the Joseph narrative (cf. Genesis 41:26).

THE ELISHA CYCLE

I am particularly struck by the narrative in 2 Kings 4-8, which combines a number of motifs and themes from the Aqhat Legend. That is not to say there was direct influence, but some sort of connection seems evident. (1) First of all, there is the tale of the Shunamite woman. Like Danel, the Shunamite woman was a person of rank (4:8) who had no heir and like Danel was later blessed with a child:

2 Kings 4:14-17: " 'What can be done for her then?' he asked. Gehazi answered, 'Well, she has no son and her husband is old.' Elisha said, 'Call her.' The servant called her and she stood at the door. 'This time next year,' he said, 'you will hold a son in your arms.' But she said, 'No, my lord, do not deceive your servant.' But the woman did conceive, and she gave birth to a son at the time Elisha said she would."

And the boy grows up but one day he suddenly dies (4:18-20). Like Danel, she has lost her promised scion. She had her servant saddle her a donkey and she set off to find Elisha on Mount Carmel (4:22-26). Likewise, when Danel learned of his son's death, he had Pugat saddle his donkey and Danel rushed off to inspect the desolated fields where his son died (cf. Aqhat 19 i. 46 - ii. 74). Then Elisha came to her house and brought the boy back from the dead (4:29-37). Although the ending has been lost, it is widely believed that the Aqhat tale ended with the resurrection of Aqhat from the dead. (2) Moreover, Elisha can inflict curses and spells with a deity's power just like Danel:

2 Kings 6:18: "Elisha prayed to Yahweh, 'I beg you to strike this people with blindness.' And at the word of Elisha he struck them blind."
Aqhat 19 iii. 113-145: " 'May Baal break the wings of the hawk, may Baal break their pinions, so that they may fall down to my feet.' ... Hardly had the words left his mouth, the utterance his lips, when Baal broke the wings of the hawks, Baal broke their pinions."

Then some time later Elisha reverses the spell, just as Danel did the same:

2 Kings 6:20: "Elisha said, 'Yahweh, open the eyes of these men, and let them see.' Yahweh opened their eyes and they saw."
Aqhat 19 iii. 115-120: "May Baal rebuild the wings of the hawks, may Baal rebuild their pinions, may the hawks escape and fly away."

The other connection to the Aqhat Cycle in this regard is the fact that Danel employs just such a spell on blindness: "Woe to you, city of Abilem, for you must bear the responsibility for valiant Aqhat's murder. May Baal make you blind, at this moment and forever more" (Aqhat 19 iii 151 - iv 168). (3) During the drought, very little food is to be found in the land. One of Elisha's men "went out into the fields to gather herbs and found a wild vine," and gathered together the fruits tho they were poisonous (2 Kings 4:39). Similarly, Danel "went through the cracked fields, he spied something green growing among the dried up sprouts. He hugged the green growth and kissed it" (Aqhat 19 i 46- ii 74). (4) Immediately after the episode of the poisonous fruit, a man came bringing "twenty barley loaves and an ear of fresh grain" (4:42). Similarly, right after Danel found the green growth in the desicated field, "he spied an ear of grain growing among the dried-up sprouts, he hugged the ear of grain and kissed it" (ibid). (5) A "bow" is mentioned in 2 Kings 6:22. (6) As the drought worsened, woman comes to a king for help as he is by the city wall and he alludes to the threshing-floor as where help could be found; this is reminiscent of Danel's profession:

2 Kings 6:26-27: "Now as the king was passing along the city wall, a woman shouted, 'Help, my lord king!' 'May Yahweh leave you helpless!' he retorted. 'Where can I find help for you? From the threshing-floor? From the winepress?"
Aqhat 17 v. 3-33: "Danel the Rapha man, the valiant Harmenite man, arose and sat at the entrance of the city gates, among the leaders sitting at the threshing-floor. He judged the widow's case, made decisions regarding the orphan."

(7) The woman tells Elisha that another woman took her son and ate him (2 Kings 6:28-29). This recalls how Danel's son was eaten by Anat's henchmen (cf. Aqhat 19 iii 144-147). (8) When the king heard the woman's news he "tore his garments" (2 Kings 6:30). Pugat "tore the garment of Danel the Rapha man" (cf. Aqhat 19 ii. 93). (9) Danel curses the land, bringing about a seven-year drought (Aqhat 19 i. 38-46). Elisha declares to the Shunamite woman that a seven-year drought is upon the land (2 Kings 8:1).

JOB

Ezekiel 14:12-20, as we have already seen, described Job and Danel in similar terms. Broadly speaking, we can see in Job a rather similar plot. A righteous, prosperous man who loses his children and is later rewarded with them because of his faith. The Epic of Keret is probably an even closer analogue to Job in Canaanite literature. (1) But we find a very close similarity between the descriptions of Job's and Danel's professions:

Job 29:7-8, 12-13, 16, 21-22: "When I went out to the gate of the city, when I took my seat in the square, as soon as I appeared, the young men stepped aside, while the older men rose to their feet....They waited anxiously to hear me, and listened in silence to what I had to say...In a lordly style, I told them what course to take, and like a king amid his armies, I led them where I chose.... The stranger's case had a hearing from me. I freed the poor man when he called, and the orphan who had no one to help him. When men were dying, it was I who had their blessing, if widows' hearts rejoiced, that was my doing."
Aqhat 17 v. 3-33: "Danel the Rapha man, the valiant Harmenite man, arose and sat at the entrance of the city gates, among the leaders sitting at the threshing-floor. He judged the widow's case, made decisions regarding the orphan."

Danel thus had a virtually identical profession to Job. (2) The same passage in Job makes repeated allusions to a symbolic "bow": "My reputation will never fade, and the bow in my hands will gain new strength" (Job 29:20); "He has unbent my bow and chastened me" (30:11). (3) Danel speaks about his son as his defender while alluding to the jaws of his enemies, while Job refers to the jaws of his adversaries and mentions how no one is defending him from his enemies:

Aqhat 17 ii. 8-23: "[My son will] send up from the earth my incense, from the dust the song of my praise, shut up the jaws of my detractors, to drive out anyone who would do me in."
Job 29:17; 30:9, 12-13: "I used to break the fangs of wicked men, and snatch their prey from between their jaws.... Their children are the ones that now sing ballads about me.... They take threatening strides towards me, they have cut me off from all escape, there is no one to check their attack."

(4) In Aqhat 19 i. 19- ii. 93, we read how the hawks were soaring over Danel's house, "a flock of birds were surveying the scene," and this passage recalls Job 39:26-29 which mentions "the hawk taking flight" and how "she watches for prey, fixing it with her far-ranging eye". There may be other resemblances that I did not yet notice.

ISAIAH

Finally, I noticed a few interesting parallels in the oracular poem in Isaiah 9-10 which reminded me of the Aqhat Legend. (1) The messianic child born in ch. 9 is one that carries forth the House of David from barranness, and the language describing his birth harks back to the Ugaritic story where Aqhat is promised to perpetuate Danel's rule and prestige:

Isaiah 9:5: "For there is a child born to us, a son given to us, and dominion is laid on his shoulder."
Aqhat 17 ii. 8-23: "For a son will be born to me as to my brothers, a scion as to my kinsmen. Someone to raise up the stela of my father's god, in the sanctuary the votive emblem of my clan."

Not only is the language in the first clause very similar but the bicolon comprising the first two clauses in Isaiah 9:5 is also very characteristic of Ugaritic poetry and resembles the bicolon in the Aqhat story. (2) Moreover the description of Danel's profession resembles Isaiah's condemnation of those in similar roles:

Isaiah 9:16: "And so the Lord will not spare their young men, will have no pity for their orphans and widows."
Isaiah 10:1-2: "Woe to the legislators of infamous laws, to those who issue tyrannical decrees, who refuse justice to the unfortunate and cheat the poor among my people of their rights, who make widows their prey [cf. Job 29:17, above] and rob the orphan."
Aqhat 17 v. 3-33: "Danel the Rapha man, the valiant Harmenite man, arose and sat at the entrance of the city gates, among the leaders sitting at the threshing floor. He judged the widow's case, made decisions regarding the orphan."

Anyway, these are some interesting parallels. What do you think?

20

Canaanite legend quoted in 2 Samuel 1:21?

by Leolaia in

the legend of aqhat, one of the great epic myths preserved in the ugaritic archive at ras shamra, was popular in some form in israel and judah and shows its traces in the ot and later jewish literature.

ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3 makes several passing references to the legend and its hero, an ancient semi-divine king named danel renowned for his wisdom and healing powers.

danel was one of the rephaim, a primeval race of demigod kings who linger on as spirits in sheol and who were revered by the canaanites in ancestor worship (cf.

Leolaia

Thus saith Leolaia.... (hehehe)

Sargon....Please see this thread of mine which discusses the passage in Psalms you are interested in, especially the section on the Mount of Assembly, as I compare the biblical allusions directly with Canaanite myth:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67843/1.ashx

PP....I have to remark that El does not strike me as a very mobile deity, most of the stuff involving him happen at his abode, at his mountain, or at the divine council that he presides over. Baal, as a meterological storm god is by definition mobile, and the texts of Yahweh as a storm god fit with this picture; cf. Psalm 29 which suggests a storm that sweeps from the Mediterranean eastward over Phoenicia, Sirion, and ending in the deserts of the northern Kadesh. Baal, and not El, has the epithet "Cloud-Rider," and the motifs of cloud-riding and cherubim-sitting are applied to Yahweh specifically (cf. 1 Samuel 4:4; 2 Samuel 22:11; Psalm 18:11, 68:4, 80:1, 99:1; Isaiah 37:16; note that Elohim is an acquired epithet of Yahweh), and not to El, El-Shaddai, El Olam, Elyon, or other epithets of El. That is not to say that El does not have cherubim at his holy mountain; Ezekiel 28:1-14 pictures El's abode at the meeting place of the two seas as an Edenic garden on a holy mountain, with guardian cherubs (cf. also v. 2 where the Phoenician king declares himself to be El). Since the karibu were viewed as guardian deities at temples and palaces in Assyria and Babylonia, and since we find the same motif in Genesis 3:24 regarding Yahweh's garden, 1 Kings 6:23-25; 8:6 regarding Solomon's temple, and even Numbers 1:51-53 regarding the Tabernacle, all the Shaddai deities (including Anat, who also had her own holy mountain) probably had cherubim-like guards. Since the cherubim were personifications of the wind, this might reflect the general wind-swept nature of mountain peaks.

About the acquisition of solar motifs, yes definitely, Mark Smith discusses this in detail in his book. It's actually a quite interesting phenomemon. Apparently during Iron Age I with rise of new centralized states, the chief patron deities throughout the Near East were solarized. We find this happening with Asshur in Assyria (depicted riding the sun disk), Marduk in Babylonia (called the "sun god of the gods" in the Enuma Elish), and even El in Syria. Mark Smith regards this region-wide development as political in nature, as the sun had traditionally been the symbol of kingship.

20

Canaanite legend quoted in 2 Samuel 1:21?

by Leolaia in

the legend of aqhat, one of the great epic myths preserved in the ugaritic archive at ras shamra, was popular in some form in israel and judah and shows its traces in the ot and later jewish literature.

ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3 makes several passing references to the legend and its hero, an ancient semi-divine king named danel renowned for his wisdom and healing powers.

danel was one of the rephaim, a primeval race of demigod kings who linger on as spirits in sheol and who were revered by the canaanites in ancestor worship (cf.

Leolaia

Sargon....Don't forget the allusion to Nimrod in Micah 5:5. I agree that Nimrod has been maligned and "before Yahweh" can have both positive and negative connotations. Skinner, one my reference works, says that the expression can mean: (1) "unique" like l'lhym in Jonah 3:3; (2) "in the estimation of" as in 2 Kings 5:5; (3) "in despite of"; (4) "with the assistance of"; (5) "in the constant presence of". I must admit that option (2) seems to be the most attractive, considering the following:

"Now Naaman was commander of the army of the king of Aram. He was a great man in the estimation of (literally, "before") his master and highly regarded, because through him Yahweh had given victory to Aram. He was a mighty (gbwr) soldier, but he had leprosy." (2 Kings 5:5)

The similarity is very close, even in the use of gibbor "mighty" to refer to both, and the use of "before" clearly has a positive connotation. Yahweh's support and approval of a warrior and gibbor is also implied. Finally, in earlier posts I conjectured that in an early edition of J (prior to the inclusion of the Flood narrative), Nimrod was was one of the famed heroes of old (i.e. the Nephilim) from Genesis 6:4.

20

Canaanite legend quoted in 2 Samuel 1:21?

by Leolaia in

the legend of aqhat, one of the great epic myths preserved in the ugaritic archive at ras shamra, was popular in some form in israel and judah and shows its traces in the ot and later jewish literature.

ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3 makes several passing references to the legend and its hero, an ancient semi-divine king named danel renowned for his wisdom and healing powers.

danel was one of the rephaim, a primeval race of demigod kings who linger on as spirits in sheol and who were revered by the canaanites in ancestor worship (cf.

Leolaia

Sargon.....When I first really got into reading the Bible in my early teens, I had a strong interest in Sargon of Agade and suspected that the Nimrod traditions of Genesis 10 drew on this historical personage (as well as Gilgamesh and possibly later Assyrian kings). Then in the '90s there appeared an academic article in Vetus Testamentum by Yigal Levin that explored this very thesis.

20

Canaanite legend quoted in 2 Samuel 1:21?

by Leolaia in

the legend of aqhat, one of the great epic myths preserved in the ugaritic archive at ras shamra, was popular in some form in israel and judah and shows its traces in the ot and later jewish literature.

ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3 makes several passing references to the legend and its hero, an ancient semi-divine king named danel renowned for his wisdom and healing powers.

danel was one of the rephaim, a primeval race of demigod kings who linger on as spirits in sheol and who were revered by the canaanites in ancestor worship (cf.

Leolaia

PP....To my recollection, Baal was the son of Dagan the agricultural god, which makes intrinsic sense. Other times he appears as the son of El, and it is unclear whether Dagan is to be identified with El or whether Baal became adopted as a son of El through his kingship after defeating El's "beloved" son Yamm.

Here are some striking examples from the minor prophets on Yahweh as a rain god like Baal:

"Then everyone that survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to keep the feast of booths. And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Yahweh of hosts, there will be no rain upon them." (Zechariah 14:16-17)

"I also withheld rain from you when the harvest was still three months away. I sent rain on one town, but withheld it from another. One field had rain; another had none and dried up." (Amos 4:7)

"Yahweh will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble." (Joel 3:16)

" 'Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,' says Yahweh the Almighty, 'and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.' " (Malachi 3:10)

See also Isaiah 30:19 and Jeremiah 3:3; 5:24; 10:13; 14:4; 51:16. Finally, I am not sure that El likewise rode in a storm chariot on the wings of cherubim. My impression was that he was mostly stationary in his palace at the headwaters of the rivers and the confluence of the two deeps.

Leolaia

16

IMPALEMENT OR CRUCIFIXION?

by BluesBrother in

http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/crucifixion.html

given the topicality of the passion of the christ, it got me thinking again about the manner of his death... i had always been led to believe , in my days as a dub , that death on a stake was far more likely and logical because to be suspended with spread arms would place too much centre of gravity in the centre and the body would pitch forward.. given that jesus took several hours to die, i found the following quote from .the above site interesting ..

"physiological response to crucifixion

Leolaia

gita....Yes, I always noticed that too. For all the noise the Society made about what crux and stauros really meant (claims which are bogus anyway), they couldn't even get the English word "impalement" right! It generally has a sense of piercing or enclosure in English.

As point of fact, the word crux in Latin did denote just sort of an execution. In Greek, skolops was often used to refer to it.

Video istic cruces non unius quidem generis sed aliter ab aliis fabricatas: capite quidam conversos in terram suspendere, alii per obscena stipitem egerunt, alii brachia patibulo explicuerunt.
"Yonder I see crosses, not indeed of a single kind, but differently contrived by different peoples; some hang their victims with head toward the ground, some impale their private parts, others stretch out their arms on a crossbeam." (Seneca, De Consolatione, 20,3)

Cogita hoc loco carcerem et cruces et eculeos et uncum et adactum per medium hominem, qui per os emergeret, stipitem.
"Picture to yourself under this head the prison, the crux, the rack, the hook, and the stake which they drive straight through a man until it protrudes from his throat." (Seneca, Epistle 14,5)

Pretty gruesome.

16

IMPALEMENT OR CRUCIFIXION?

by BluesBrother in

http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/crucifixion.html

given the topicality of the passion of the christ, it got me thinking again about the manner of his death... i had always been led to believe , in my days as a dub , that death on a stake was far more likely and logical because to be suspended with spread arms would place too much centre of gravity in the centre and the body would pitch forward.. given that jesus took several hours to die, i found the following quote from .the above site interesting ..

"physiological response to crucifixion

Leolaia

BluesBrother....Of course, this subject was of great interest to me while I was in the bOrg. My conclusions, after looking at the evidence:

1) The Romans did crucify prisoners and slaves in the first century with a two-beamed cross and the words crux and stauros did denote such an execution instrument (cf. Plautus, Lucian, Artemidorus, Seneca, Tacitus). The Society's repeated claim that Livy used crux to only denote impalement is without merit. The claim that Lucian used anastaroo to denote impalement in his play on Prometheus is also contradicted by the evidence. By claiming that crux and stauros did not mean "cross" until the third century, the Society is intentionally distorting and hiding the facts.

2) The Gospel accounts assume a two-beamed cross, especially in the motif of Jesus or Simon of Cyrene carrying the cross on the way to Golgotha (cf. John 19:17) which is nothing other than the widely-attested practice of patibulum-bearing (the patibulum was the crossbeam). This practice pre-existed the invention of crucifixion as a method to torture disobediant slaves (cf. Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Plutarch) and was widely adopted as a prelude to crucifixion (cf. Plautus, Plutarch, Artemidorus, Chariton). The Society would instead require Jesus or Simn to carry a pole to Golgotha (actually pictured in the Greatest Man Who Ever Lived book (1991, chapter 124), which is utterly without any historical support and ignores the copious evidence of patibulum-bearing. The traditional Christian picture of Jesus carrying the whole cross over one of his shoulders (seen in the Passion of the Christ movie) is also unhistorical....what the Romans did was have the prisoner stretch out his hands, nail or tie the hands to the crossbeam, and then having him bear the beam over his back or chest to the stationary stipes (vertical beam), and then hoist him up to the cross. This practice is also alluded to in John 21:18-19 which also assumes a two-beamed cross. Details in John 20:25 and Matthew 27:37 are also best explained by assuming a two-beamed cross.

3) The use of the word xylon "tree, wood" in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29, Galatians 3:13, and 1 Peter 2:24 does not indicate the kind of stauros Jesus died on, only that the Bible writers understood Roman crucifixion in terms of the law in Deuteronomy 21:23-23. Other Jewish writers referred to Roman crosses in the same manner (including the Dead Sea Scrolls, Philo, Josephus), and Roman writers also referred to Roman crosses metaphorically as "trees" (cf. Seneca).

4) There was a strong tradition in late first century and second century Christianity that repeatedly looked for prophecies and prefigurings of the two-beamed cross of Jesus in the OT, and described the stretching out of the hands from side to side as a sign of Jesus' cross.

And to anticipate someone saying "What difference does it make what kind of cross Jesus died on," it makes no difference from a theological point of view, but that is not what we are discussing....it is a historical matter, and it is certainly a valid matter to discuss if the Society repeatedly distorts the facts on the matter. It is just another instance of lies and deception by the Watchtower.

26

Did You Ever REALLY Think That You Would Never Die?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i did.

what about you?

Leolaia

I never was sure I would survive Amma-geddin.

12

When Only a Cult Remains: a True Story

by metatron in

several years ago, an elderly brother was no longer able to take care of himself.

credit, a witness couple related to him, took him into their home.

sadly, the other witness.

Leolaia

Thank you for sharing your story, metatron. Scary.